Help explain non binary

[Educationneeded]

Hi, thread was inspired by the other about coming out as GC. I have name changed as I’m not ready to be outed so just incase.

I am GC, although only have expressed my views to close friends and family. My younger sister is due to go up to high school in September and six months ago came out as non binary. We all believe this decision was heavily influenced by TikTok and the wokeness on there.

My parents don’t really understand. My Dad just rolls his eyes but my Mum wants to learn however doesn’t know much on the subject and has asked me to talk to my sister. I have no idea how to even approach the topic with her. Anyone have any guidance? Anything I can tell or show my Mum? I’ve read a lot on trans and women’s right but not much on non binary and don’t really know where to start with this minefield. I guess I’d like to educate myself too.

This article by M.K Fain is worth reading:

'Non-Binary Is the New “Not Like Other Girls,” and it’s Deeply Rooted in Misogyny'
(extract)
"In the summer of 2018 I lived in a house with three other women. We spent a lot of time together that year, and there were many late-night conversations about the sexism, misogyny, and male violence we had experienced. We talked about not fitting into what society had expected of women, we stopped shaving together, and we encouraged each other to not be ashamed of our natural bodies. We called rape crisis lines, organized protests, and exposed violent men in our communities. Mitali shaved her head in a defiant act of rebellion against Indian expectations of beauty. Joy became empowered to use her voice to speak up for the oppressed. Miriam* started to confront her religious parents and come to terms with her sexuality. The four of us dreamt of what a feminist world could look like and envisioned our lives free from patriarchy and violence.

Now, one year later, all three of them identify as “non-binary” — no longer a woman.

According to the Human Rights Campaign, non-binary means:

An adjective describing a person who does not identify exclusively as a man or a woman. Non-binary people may identify as being both a man and a woman, somewhere in between, or as falling completely outside these categories.

So how did three feminist women who were bravely defying gender norms and tackling the male violence in their lives suddenly decide they are non-women?

Non-binary identities are on the rise. In the UK, the number of non-binary students appears to have doubled between 2017 and 2018. With two-thirds of young people who identify as trans being female, it’s likely that most of the growth in non-binary identities has come from young women. While there is a dearth of research in this area, my experience is not unique. To feminists, this should not come as a surprise."(continues)
4w.pub/non-binary-is-the-new-not-like-other-girls-and-its-deeply-rooted-in-misogyny/

M.K Fain and Sasha White's 'Identity Crisis' YouTube series may be useful:

'Introducing Identity Crisis: Advice for Gender Critical Teens and Twenty-Somethings'

"Today’s teenagers are pressured to agree with all aspects of gender identity ideology, or else risk major social backlash. While some teens take up the mantle with enthusiasm or go along uncritically, a growing number of young people are left with unanswered questions, and at a loss for how to begin to answer them. For trans-identified or detransitioned/detransitioning, lesbian, gay, or bisexual teens, navigating the new gender ideology within their community can be a minefield, fraught with potential social missteps. For any young adult who is critical of or questioning “gender identity”, stepping out of line with the liberal feminist mainstream can feel like a major risk. If you fall into one of these categories, you may feel alone and isolated with no one to turn to for support.

“Identity Crisis” is a new weekly column and podcast for young people struggling with the modern orthodoxy of gender identity ideology—developed in collaboration between Plebity and 4W by women who have been there.

Whether you have questions about your own understanding of gender and feminism, looking to support a friend, or struggling with fear of getting “cancelled”—Sasha White (Plebity) and M. K. Fain (4W) are teaming up to provide guidance on how to navigate these situations in a healthy and productive way. Sasha and M. K. are both women in their twenties who have experienced extreme pushback on their gender critical views. We were both fired from our unrelated jobs and #cancelled for our online critique of liberal concepts like “non binary” identities and “neo-pronouns.”.

But, thanks to the backlash, we’ve also met many young people who reached out to us in search of connection and guidance. We have heard from teenagers and young adults who feel alone, isolated, and utterly lost amidst the pressure to agree with statements like “transwomen are women” in their schools, social groups, and even workplaces. Navigating these situations is hard, and yet so many young people today are faced with the same dilemmas. We have created this space to provide concrete advice, guidance, and support to teens and young adults based on our own experiences."

How does your sister define it?

I mean, I doubt that will clear things up but you might get a handle on why she’s defining herself that way.

Then I’d pretty much ignore it until the next tik tok thing comes along.

@Educationneeded

Hi, thread was inspired by the other about coming out as GC. I have name changed as I’m not ready to be outed so just incase.

I am GC, although only have expressed my views to close friends and family. My younger sister is due to go up to high school in September and six months ago came out as non binary. We all believe this decision was heavily influenced by TikTok and the wokeness on there.

My parents don’t really understand. My Dad just rolls his eyes but my Mum wants to learn however doesn’t know much on the subject and has asked me to talk to my sister. I have no idea how to even approach the topic with her. Anyone have any guidance? Anything I can tell or show my Mum? I’ve read a lot on trans and women’s right but not much on non binary and don’t really know where to start with this minefield. I guess I’d like to educate myself too.

Non binary is very simple - it essentially just means that their gender identity falls somewhere between male and female.

They have made themselves very vulnerable by telling you, and if they have trans friends, they are probably well aware that there is a high risk of significant family rejection.

So the best thing to do is just love them - use the pronouns they ask you to use, reassure them that your love is unconditional and that you are there for them.

If it looks like either are you parents are going to reject them, do what you can to stop that happening - family rejection is common, and absolutely devastating:

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2020/?section=Finding-Support

Apart from that - just carry on as normal - they are still the same person, all that's happened is you learnt something about them.

None binary seems to be a messed up way to reject gender binary constraints

I say it's messed up because it sort of assumes that gender constraints are ok for some people , and I think gender is unhealthy for everyone.., everyone should assume everyone else is none binary

It could be a fad inspired by social media but it could also mean that there had been some sexist stuff thrown at her that she really doesn't like , or it could mean that she's finding puberty hard , or she could just be reflecting how she realises she doesn't quite fit gender expectations

Non binary is very simple - it essentially just means that their gender identity falls somewhere between male and female

And what's that supposed to mean?

Non binary is very simple - it essentially just means that their gender identity falls somewhere between male and female.

Female and male are sex descriptors.

Female means of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of ova which can be fertilized by male gametes.
Male means of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.

There is no 'in between female and male'.

Above all, I'd suggest asking your sister what it means to her.

First there was punk, then there was goth, then there was emo and now there is non binary. It's what you are if you're a confused teen and don't really know/understand who you are but want to be part of something (or an older person desperately trying to fit in/be on trend). Gender is a social construct, that means it's made up by people/society so anything with the word gender in it is also made up. Boys liking pink doesn't need a label.

@R0wantrees

Non binary is very simple - it essentially just means that their gender identity falls somewhere between male and female.

Female and male are sex descriptors.

Female means of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of ova which can be fertilized by male gametes.
Male means of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.

There is no 'in between female and male'.

Obviously, I would say it's way more complicated, but that's for another day. Right now, the important thing is that a young person is in a vulnerable position, so show them some love and acceptance. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

Obviously, I would say it's way more complicated, but that's for another day.

It can't be that complicated, if children in primary school can understand about it without being taught about it.

My sister says she isn’t old enough to decide what her gender is so she’s non-binary. It’s concerning as she’s saying she wants to use non binary toilets, which seem to be appearing everywhere now, in our city anyway. She’s 11 years old, none of us feel comfortable with her using a toilet where she could encounter a man who could potentially be using it to take advantage but at the age of 11 she should be able to go to the toilet alone. I don’t think it’s as simple as just ‘loving her’. We need to be sensible about this, the world is a scary place but we also don’t want to stop her from expressing herself.

I haven’t seen her since she announced she’s NB either as I don’t live with them and obviously it’s been lockdown. She has no idea of what my opinions on the subject are and I guess I’ve been asked to speak to her because whatever my parents say will be met with an eye roll. I just don’t even know where to start

‘Non binary toilets’?

What fresh hell is this?!

@TheFleegleHasLanded

‘Non binary toilets’?

What fresh hell is this?!

Sorry not sure if that’s the actual name what’s just what she refers to them as

Toilets for both males and females. Our local shopping centre has female, male, disabled and mixed sex toilets.

My sister says she isn’t old enough to decide what her gender is so she’s non-binary.

You could tell her that she doesn't have to decide what her 'gender' is (choosing to be non-binary is deciding to have a gender of non-binary) and she can just be a girl. So she should use girls'/women's toilets. Explain that most women don't 'have a gender' either and that they're just women.

This child is no more vulnerable than any other child- and probably significantly less than many.

OP are you able to chat with her? She sounds like she’s embarking on a period of trying to work out who she is/what her place in the world is. Like most of us do when we’re young. She may find it helpful to discuss it all with you, as a semi outsider.

Sorry I forgot a massively relevant point and also not to drip feed she is autistic. High functioning but still has. Oh daily struggles.

Toilets are provided on the basis of sex. Female toilets have cubicals with tampon/towel dipensers etc. Male toilets have urinals.

Female toilets can be used by all female people (girls and women) including those with a non-binary gender identity.

Don’t know what happened there! Was supposed to say big daily struggles*.

Its important for children this young to have adults that can explain clearly that sex (female/male, girl/boy, women/men) is not the same as 'gender identity'.

They have made themselves very vulnerable by telling you

Vulnerable to what? Being disobeyed when they tell others how to refer to them?

They have made themselves very vulnerable by telling you, and if they have trans friends, they are probably well aware that there is a high risk of significant family rejection.

Unfortunately this is what many children are being told on internet forums.
It is a very serious Safeguarding and Child Protection issue when strangers convince children that they will be rejected by their parents/carers.

By choosing to use ‘mixed sex’ toilets she needs to know she is putting herself at risk as there are men who will use these toilets to gain unchallenged access to females. She’s 11. She knows she’s female. She may well pretend that she’s neither male or female because tic tock videos are heavily influencing other 11 yr olds into this madness.
She is vulnerable because she is an 11 year old girl, and is autistic. Not because she’s decided she’s ‘non binary’.
The urban myths around ‘trans’ children being rejected by their families is just that. Children whose parents will not affirm their trans identities are not rejecting their children, they are just not being forced into going along with this ideology.

OP, talk to your sister. Ask her to explain to you what she actually means, what difference it will make to her life. Id bet my house on it that she can’t give a logical explanation.

I would try to demonstrate to her that being a girl/woman is compatible with any behaviour/dress/role/occupation but that she has a sexed body and her sex is female.

At 11 I do wonder if, as well as social media, there is perhaps a fear of puberty both in a physical sense and a social transition to adulthood which is driving this?

I would suggest that your parents reduce and monitor her social media use whilst being as generally supportive of her as possible but not changing pronouns.