Help explain non binary

[Educationneeded]

Hi, thread was inspired by the other about coming out as GC. I have name changed as I’m not ready to be outed so just incase.

I am GC, although only have expressed my views to close friends and family. My younger sister is due to go up to high school in September and six months ago came out as non binary. We all believe this decision was heavily influenced by TikTok and the wokeness on there.

My parents don’t really understand. My Dad just rolls his eyes but my Mum wants to learn however doesn’t know much on the subject and has asked me to talk to my sister. I have no idea how to even approach the topic with her. Anyone have any guidance? Anything I can tell or show my Mum? I’ve read a lot on trans and women’s right but not much on non binary and don’t really know where to start with this minefield. I guess I’d like to educate myself too.

Cis privilege, eh?

Seeing as "cis" is a made up concept, invented by gender ideologists, "cis privilege" must be too.

Non binary to me at 49 years old is the same as the 70s/80s androgyny era. The youth of each era needs to be different than the last so new names are made up but really they are just rehashes. But shhh don't tell them

@Tiggeri

I feel quite sure this was not a genuine post.

My post? Feel free to ask mumsnet to check up on my posting history I am a long time poster who has NC.

Why on earth would I make this up when I am literally asking for advice and links to information?

@Lovemusic33 being non binary does make her more vulnerable though. As I’ve explained she is already being bullied at school and now she is making herself stand out even more. All of the girls in her year call her weird. They’ve had to buddy her up with someone from the year below as she will spend break and lunch time completely alone otherwise.

I really feel for todays 11yos that they feel they need to be in these pigeon holes. I have a 16 year old DS only in the past year or so has he mentioned his friends putting themselves into categories as they become sexually active.

He has friends who are non binary, gay, lesbian, trans , straight, bi and asexual. I am sure that if I see them again in 10 years time some will be as they are now some will be different, they are finding their way thats all. If she is being bullied then you need to take it up with the school.

School are useless as they have been for the entirety of her time there. They’ve struggled to get a statement for her so support has been lax at best. There was talks with CAMHS of taking her out of mainstream but they decided against it. That’s really a different thread though as so much has happened regarding school. I’m hoping that side of things gets better when she goes up to high school.

She thrived during lockdown as obviously there was no school. I think that’s how she got the confidence to come out as non binary.

TBH kids in her position are likely to be bullied no matter what. The same declared identity, clothing choice, etc. will be treated very differently coming from the weird kid than from the popular kid.

(speaking as a former weird kid who at that age was taunted for having boys' shoes, incidentally the exact same shoes as another, non-bullied kid who I was informed it was okay for, because she was a tomboy)

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster

TBH kids in her position are likely to be bullied no matter what. The same declared identity, clothing choice, etc. will be treated very differently coming from the weird kid than from the popular kid.

Yes I agree with this tbh from similar experience. Once you're 'marked' it doesn't matter what you do anymore really.

She thrived during lockdown as obviously there was no school. I think that’s how she got the confidence to come out as non binary

Or more likely she spent a lot more time on the internet during that time.

These comments are ridiculous and incorrect. Being female definitely does carry with it very real risks of all the things you mention - family rejection (due to patriarchal sex stereotyping, particularly if you're gender-conforming or not 'feminine' enough to meet your family's particular gender steorotyped expectations), unemployment (due to sex-based discrimination), bullying (again sex-based), and homelessness (particularly as women generally earn less than men and are more likely to be in abusive relationships, both of which are clear risk factors for ending up homeless). There are also many people who would 'advise' women and girls 'to find ways to stop you being yourself' if they didn't met those people's ideas of what is acceptable behaviour for someone of the female sex. Your post is totally disingenous and completely ignores the structural discrimination that women face in virtually every aspect of their life. A bizarre post in the 'feminism chat' section

A lot of sweeping generalisations and exaggeration if you're dealing with women in western society and in particular the vast majority of homeless people are male.

[quote Educationneeded]@Lovemusic33 being non binary does make her more vulnerable though. As I’ve explained she is already being bullied at school and now she is making herself stand out even more. All of the girls in her year call her weird. They’ve had to buddy her up with someone from the year below as she will spend break and lunch time completely alone otherwise.[/quote]
My dd has been bullied throughout school (now 17), she stands out because she has ASD, her coming out as pansexual has not made things worse, if anything it has improved, she now helps run the school LGBT+ group and has made friends through this, she’s now in 6 form so no longer wearing school uniform, her dress sense I guess is non binary, she dresses different than her friends but she has friends and they except her for who she is, both her best friends are straight. I don’t think it makes her more vulnerable, if anything it’s made her less vulnerable and more confident because she is being who she wants to be.

@Shizuku

"To be fair being female makes us all vulnerable?"

Obvs, but not vulnerable to family rejection, unemployability, bullying, and homelessness just for being cis. Nor do you have people on Mumsnet advising your family members to find ways to stop you being yourself, and referring them to hate groups for advice.

Cis privilege, eh?

There's no such thing as cis, Shizuku.

@Lovemusic33 glad it’s worked out that way for your daughter. Unfortunately for my sister it now means her class mates have started calling her ‘it’ and ‘the thing’ as she’s reminded them about pronouns and to call her they/them. Not everyone has the same experiences.

If you don't think LGBT bullying at school is a thing, you should read this 2017 survey:

www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/the_school_report_2017.pdf

Obvs, but not vulnerable to family rejection, unemployability, bullying, and homelessness just for not being trans. Nor do you have people on Mumsnet advising your family members to find ways to stop you being yourself, and referring them to hate groups for advice.

The thread concerns an 11 year old autistic child, not an adult who identifies as transgender.
Appropriating and attempting to misframe her family member's concerns about how to best support her within her family is poor behaviour to witness on a parenting site.
Nobody has signposted to resurces of a 'hate group'

"I for one am certain the likes of Pippa Bunce and Eddie Izzard are way less privileged than the women I know."

Oh no - you found the 2 people who perfectly represent the experiences of the average trans person and now my argument has fallen apart!

Oh no - you found the 2 people who perfectly represent the experiences of the average trans person and now my argument has fallen apart!

It is usually sarcasm that causes your arguments to fall apart.

@ArabellaScott

Above all, I'd suggest asking your sister what it means to her.

I think this is good advice.

A couple of my dd's friends have come out as non-binary. As far as I can ascertain, it seems to mean that they don't feel like they fit into either of the stereotypical gender roles, but rather than questioning whether those stereotypical gender roles are actually valid, they have instead reached the conclusion that they need to change their pronouns to they/them. I don't really understand it tbh - I don't really know why they can't just be boys/girls who don't fit the stereotype - but I'm happy to go along with the pronouns if that's what makes them feel validated.

I have been very honest with dd about the fact that I don't buy into the concept of gender. I don't know what it is, and nobody has yet been able to explain what "feeling like a woman" or "feeling like a man" actually means. Essentially, dd is also sceptical, as she too rejects the gender stereotypes while continuing to use female pronouns/"identify" as a girl. However, she is eager to respect how her friends feel, and as I have brought her up to be kind and considerate towards others, I try to support this. Privately, I do think it's all nonsense, but I have no wish to upset troubled young people, and so I will play along as required.

Are you suggesting there aren't countless male born people who've benefited from male privilege who have transitioned? I'll stop going off at a tangent now, but really.

Intersectionality reminds us that we can be privileged in some ways and disadvantaged in other ways.

I suppose the question is whether being 'cis' confers a privilege that tends to outweigh other privileges - whether social, economic or biological.

Male privilege is pretty extensive.

Biologically it includes considerable impact on day to day life - no risk or fear of becoming pregnant, no menstruation. Males generally don't require use of contraception that may interfere with their health. No childbirth to consider - a huge risk for female health. Males' health issues are more likely to be researched, their concerns more likely to be listened than female ones. Of course, males die younger, so there may be a point at which male privilege becomes a disadvantage, health wise.

If you were born male, you will have experienced male socialisation, possibly even from before birth. Socialised to believe you are the dominant or superior sex. This tends to encourage the idea we have a 'right' to talk more, that our views are more worthy of respect. Hence mansplaining, etc.

The world is largely built around males and male privilege. History is a long 'his story'. Most people in power are still male. Etc.

So males are, as a class, hugely privileged over females.

Whatever their 'gender identity', male privilege is a far more pervasive, significant and powerful privilege than so-called 'cis' privilege.

Mail on Sunday Sanchez Manning
17 November 2018
(extract)
"An astonishing 17 pupils at a single British school are in the process of changing gender, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Most of the youngsters undergoing the transformation are autistic, according to a teacher there, who said vulnerable children with mental health problems were being ‘tricked’ into believing they are the wrong sex.

The whistleblower says few of the transgender children are suffering from gender dysphoria – the medical term for someone who feels they were born in the wrong body – but are just easily influenced, latching on to the mistaken belief they are the wrong sex as a way of coping with the problems caused by autism. (continues)

Older pupils at her school who changed gender ‘groomed’ younger, mainly autistic students to do the same;

One autistic teenager is soon to have a double mastectomy;

Pupils who say they were born the wrong sex mimic transgender YouTube stars Carol believes are partly to blame for convincing vulnerable children they have gender dysphoria.

Last night, Conservative MP David Davies said: ‘I congratulate this teacher for coming out and telling us what I have long suspected has been going on in schools. It is horrendous that children are being encouraged by other pupils to identify as transgender, particularly if they have autism." (continues)

‘Once she was involved with that group there was no turning back,’ she says. ‘It was decided that she was transgender and that was that, it was never challenged and I blame myself for that.’

Carol now firmly believes that the student never suffered from gender dysphoria – the medical term for someone who feels they were born in the wrong body – but was simply autistic and should have been offered more help to cope with their emotional and social difficulties.

What makes this even more painful for Carol and is one of the reasons she has chosen to speak out today is that she has learned the girl is planning a double mastectomy as part of her gender realignment." (continues)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6401593/Whistleblower-teacher-makes-shocking-claim-autistic.html