Dr Debbie Hayton interview

[ChristinaXYZ]

In case you haven't seen it.

“I worry that trans people are being used in a political campaign to compromise women’s spaces”

What a f*king star she is. She says it like it is. Love her interviews.

I listened to this and loved it. Could have listened all day. Thank you Debbie.

Thoughtful, measured and blessedly slogan free.

She is a star. I'm so grateful. To everyone who stands up for truth.

Now THAT is stunning and brave!

I choose the pronoun she.
She is unusually self aware.

The Triggernometry vids are always great.

The same DH who helped write this?

www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

I think it depends on your definition of women's spaces - the guidance seems to have omitted the law on single-sex spaces, but clearly my definition is different to DH’s

I would be very happy to hear if DH has helped since update the guidance to actually ensure women’s spaces.

I have other issues with the guidance - including teaching children, particularly girls, to use compelled pronouns of their sex for the opposite sex etc. I think this is about basic safeguarding.

Brilliant video. I reckon she’d be a fab science teacher too!

Hmm but Dr Hayton talks about testing people by asking which bathroom they should go in, to see if they 'passed'.

I'd much rather listen to Dr Hayton's wife.

That said, a sensible voice is always welcome

Until Hayton actually states that she no longer supports the guidance she previously wrote? Or is it still being studiously ignored. Hayton is a grifter and I can’t believe people are still going along with it.

I’d rather listen to Dr Hayton’s wife too.

If feminism celebrates transwomen, then when do their wives get a chance to speak?

@Mn753

Hmm but Dr Hayton talks about testing people by asking which bathroom they should go in, to see if they 'passed'.

I'd much rather listen to Dr Hayton's wife.

That said, a sensible voice is always welcome

Very true. It’s good to have these things pointed out. Thanks Mn753

Well this all seems very spontaneous.

@TinselAngel

Well this all seems very spontaneous.

What do you think, Tinsel?

@UppityPuppity

The same DH who helped write this?

www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

I think it depends on your definition of women's spaces - the guidance seems to have omitted the law on single-sex spaces, but clearly my definition is different to DH’s

I would be very happy to hear if DH has helped since update the guidance to actually ensure women’s spaces.

I have other issues with the guidance - including teaching children, particularly girls, to use compelled pronouns of their sex for the opposite sex etc. I think this is about basic safeguarding.

DH doesn’t compel anyone to use any pronoun.

I think my opinions on platforming or promoting married AGPs in feminist spaces are pretty well documented Empress!

DH might not personally, but they co-wrote that piece of guidance which does. Whenever questioned about it there is silence.

“I worry that trans people are being used in a political campaign to compromise women’s spaces”

Discussion of 'NASUWT Trans Equality in Schools and Colleges
Advice and Guidance for Teachers and Leaders' published 2017
At the front & end is acknowledgement,

"The NASUWT is very grateful to Dr Debbie Hayton (Teacher) for assisting in the development of this guidance."

NASUWT advice to SLT makes clear the Union will support perceived discrimination claims with legal action though this is clearly more for the benefit of its members who are Schoolmasters under the wide self-id trans umbrella (including cross-dressers) rather than Women Teachers who have the protected characteristic of sex.

Women's single sex spaces in school are compromised by the NASUWT guidance.

(extract)
"Supporting Dual-role People
Some people manage their gender dysphoria by living as a man or a woman in different aspects of their lives. For example, they may work in a male role but socialise in a female role.
Although the protected characteristic under the Equality Act is gender reassignment, it is best to assume that dual-role people are covered by perception that they might transition.
Like everyone else they deserve to be treated with dignity
and respect.
In practical terms, there should be no issues unless the different aspects of their lives overlap in some way. For example, a male teacher might want to attend a staff party as a woman. In that case they would probably prefer to use a female name and feminine pronouns, and they should be allowed to use the toilets appropriate to the gender in which they are presenting.
As referenced on page 4, it is always far better to ask the person concerned before applying any arbitrary label to them. " (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3938537-NASUWT-Trans-Equality-in-Schools

@TinselAngel

I think my opinions on platforming or promoting married AGPs in feminist spaces are pretty well documented Empress!

For example, a male teacher might want to attend a staff party as a woman. In that case they would probably prefer to use a female name and feminine pronouns, and they should be allowed to use the toilets appropriate to the gender in which they are presenting.

That’s extremely unfair on female members of staff. I hope Dr Hayton’s thought better of it and is trying to get all parts of those guidelines that compromise single-sex spaces revoked.

DH doesn’t compel anyone to use any pronoun.

When pupils and parents are advised that a male teacher has 'transitioned' during the holidays and is returning as a woman/transwoman what pronouns would children be expected to use?
Dr Hayton often points to not needing to be known as Miss/Mrs/Ms rather than Mr however as anyone who spends time in school is aware most pupils use Miss and Sir most frequently. Often annoyingly frequently.

The NASUWT guidance includes notes on pronoun usage.

February 2020 Quillette article by Dr Hayton:
'I May Have Gender Dysphoria. But I Still Prefer to Base My Life on Biology, Not Fantasy'
(extract)
"Autogynephilia drove my own transsexualism." (continues)

thread with link & discussion of article:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3812773-Impressive-new-article-by-Debbie-Hayton

Apologies, reference to image above
June 2019 OP DancingRaven wrote:
"I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally.
It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605090-Boundaries-and-Allies

DH doesn’t compel anyone to use any pronoun.

Policy DH helped to write:

Employers have a moral as well as a legal duty to stamp out discrimination and harassment in all its forms. The NASUWT plays an important role in supporting trans members and offering advice and experience to their colleagues and employers.

Which includes:

Pronouns and titles. The trans person should be referred to by their preferred pronouns (e.g. he, she, they, zie) and title (e.g. Mr, Miss, Mrs, Ms, Mx) and the employer has a duty to ensure that this is understood by everyone. Mistakes are to be expected in the weeks after transition but, when this happens, a quick apology and correction should suffice.

That’s sure as hell compulsion to me. DH may not personally compel others, but DH’s guidance which impacts thousands of teachers, certainly does.

Didn’t notice anything in the guidance on how to support properly the wives (most always) or children of people who transition. Like other posters, I would much rather hear from Dr Stephanie Hayton.

@R0wantrees

DH doesn’t compel anyone to use any pronoun.

When pupils and parents are advised that a male teacher has 'transitioned' during the holidays and is returning as a woman/transwoman what pronouns would children be expected to use?
Dr Hayton often points to not needing to be known as Miss/Mrs/Ms rather than Mr however as anyone who spends time in school is aware most pupils use Miss and Sir most frequently. Often annoyingly frequently.

The NASUWT guidance includes notes on pronoun usage.

I’m referring to the interview DH did.

I’m referring to the interview DH did.

That seems to highlight a contradiction then, if DH is saying that while doing little to row back on the guide DH co-wrote that does compel pronouns.

It's really not that difficult to openly state when you've changed your mind on an issue, and it's very puzzling to me why DH says nothing that suggests DH distances themselves from the co-written guide now.