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Diva magazine exclusively for TRAs now

(253 Posts)
SapphosRock Sat 12-Sep-20 14:52:22

I’m pretty hacked off about it truth be told, especially since I’ve supported Diva and bought pretty much every issue since I came out as a lesbian in the late 90s.

I’m a member of Diva’s online community and someone recently posted about Nicola Adams (Olympic world champion boxer, used to identify as bisexual, recently came out as a lesbian).

Nicola has made the suggestion of having a separate category in boxing for trans women to compete with one another as she doesn’t believe it is fair for them to compete in the female category. Thread on it here:

This seems completely fair enough, and there is an exception in the Equality Act for exactly this reason, to make women’s sport fair.

As Diva is (was?) mainly a place for lesbian women, quite a few in the online community spoke up in support of Nicola Adams.

A trans woman who is a prominent poster in the group wrote a long and detailed post to ‘educate’ everybody why it is completely fair for trans women to compete in female sport. Point 5 of her post states biological sex isn’t binary. Anyone who didn’t agree is a transphobe.

This was backed up by Linda Riley (Diva publisher) who compared debating the right of trans women to compete in female sport to debating ‘all lives matter’, not so subtly suggesting that questioning the fairness of trans women in sport is as bad as racism.


I have absolutely no problem with Diva welcoming trans women into the community but centering trans activism like this is madness. I know I’ve posted here in defense of Diva before when other lesbians expressed concerns about the TRA / MRA ethos. Apologies I didn’t listen and feel free to tell me ‘I told you so’.

As a side note, the prominent TRA in Diva’s online community made Diva’s Pride Power list. Olympic world champion lesbian role model Nicola Adams did not.

OP’s posts: |
EdgeOfACoin Sat 12-Sep-20 15:08:46

I wonder if it will end up like the lesbian subs on Reddit - predominantly transwomen with a handful of biological females.

The quietly GC ones might just slip away.

SonEtLumiere Sat 12-Sep-20 15:16:56

No one believes it though.

Only the basest misogynist wants and encourages men and women being put into a boxing ring to “fight”. And everyone knows it.

Maybe you can say how much you are looking forward to seeing how each of the female world champions do against the men.

There are a lot of men who would make it worthwhile financially for any of the current male world champions to identify (temporarily) as a woman in order to be able to legitimately pulverize a female.

They are saying that there are women who could legitimately be asked to fight Mike Tyson. It’s obscene.

MichelleofzeResistance Sat 12-Sep-20 15:26:20

Sorry to see this Sappho I too remember the best days of Diva in the 90s. Sadly not surprised though.

PronounssheRa Sat 12-Sep-20 15:26:32

Hasnt this been Linda Rileys position for a long time? She sold out lesbians years ago.

happydappy2 Sat 12-Sep-20 15:30:20

Diva might find their membership numbers dwindling rapidly.....If there's a gap in the market someone should start a new magazine for lesbians. Exclusively of the female kind.

SapphosRock Sat 12-Sep-20 15:34:18

I knew Linda Riley's position was TWAW but I didn't know she expected the entire diva community to buy into this too. She is effectively saying everyone in the group must oppose the exception in the Equality Act which says it is lawful to make a distinction between women and trans women in sport or they are not welcome.

Quite a few seem to support it. I wonder if the ones who have stayed quiet are thinking 'WTF' like me.

OP’s posts: |
SapphosRock Sat 12-Sep-20 15:35:47

* someone should start a new magazine for lesbians. Exclusively of the female kind.*

I thought this too. I used to freelance for Diva years ago but can't imagine writing anything for them now.

OP’s posts: |
MsWonderful Sat 12-Sep-20 15:46:58

So rude as well as stupid ‘fuck terf athletes’ just completely dismissing women who would actually have to fight with men and are asking questions about it. It makes me so angry. I don’t know how to put this and I know women can be horrible and aggressive just like men can, but this is not the way that, ime, women talk to or about each other, with this kind of dehumanising language. I suppose it’s because she’s just repeating what male TRAs say about women who dare to say no angry

OvaHere Sat 12-Sep-20 15:51:02

It's an all or nothing mentality. No space for any nuance which was always going to be the outcome of TWAW rather than TWATW.

I imagine what will happen is that the lesbian scene for women will end up for the most part underground again.

EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus Sat 12-Sep-20 15:57:22

I know I’ve posted here in defense of Diva before when other lesbians expressed concerns about the TRA / MRA ethos. Apologies I didn’t listen and feel free to tell me ‘I told you so.

Fair play, Sappho, it comes to us all. I’ve met Linda Riley & thoroughly disliked her.

Cascade220 Sat 12-Sep-20 15:58:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SapphosRock Sat 12-Sep-20 16:00:34

The hypocrisy is enraging.

I don't know why on earth the opinion of a random trans women in the group who freely admits to being 'the least sporty person imaginable' is taken as gospel while the opinion of Olympic world champion Nicola Adams is dismissed.

It's certainly proof that misogyny and male privilege is deeply ingrained.

Diva I thought better of you 😡

OP’s posts: |
SapphosRock Sat 12-Sep-20 16:03:06

Hold my hands up @EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus and @SpartacusAutisticus I admit I was wrong before.

The rose tinted glasses are well and truly off.

OP’s posts: |
ThePickleMan Sat 12-Sep-20 16:03:50

I think a lot of lesbians have disengaged totally with LGBTQI groups/publications for this reason. I have - I’m now resigned to my views being ignored and being branded a transphobic lesbian. It saddens me greatly that a publication that was once so important to me when I was younger has this view also.

Cascade220 Sat 12-Sep-20 16:05:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer Sat 12-Sep-20 16:06:11

Sorry sapphos

EarthSight Sat 12-Sep-20 16:07:39

Every woman has a right to debate what's going on in sports and other competitions to ensure they are fair and safe. The fact that this post communicates 'please shut about your rights' is just galling for a lesbian publication.

Kit19 Sat 12-Sep-20 16:09:56

I’m sorry sapphos - I know your past defences were in good faith even though I completely disagreed with you

It sucks so much to come to the realisation you’ve been ‘had’ by the people who were meant to be on your side

Needmoresleep Sat 12-Sep-20 16:10:36

Sappho, I'm sorry. I've often disagreed with you but admired your determination to stick to your guns.

Nicola Adams is right. She knows. We know she knows. The idea of putting her and other female boxers at risk for the sake of correctness or ideology is clearly wrong. So clear that others claiming to represent lesbian women don't see it at all.

Sewsosew Sat 12-Sep-20 16:11:09

Who do they think will watch this shit? No biological woman is going to get in a ring with a biological man to get hit. So is it going to be transwomen hitting each other, sure that will get the viewers and the sponsors in.
I hate boxing but I think Nicola Adams is fabulous.

EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus Sat 12-Sep-20 16:16:21

Diva I thought better of you

It utterly bloody stinks. I used to love picking up Diva when I was just out in the 90s. I used to volunteer for bloody Stonewall. And now T is the only letter that matters to either of them.

Iamhangingin Sat 12-Sep-20 16:17:59

I stopped buying DIVA 5 years ago (maybe longer?) due to their trans articles. Putting any feminist arguments to one side, it just wasn't a magazine that felt in anyway relevant to my life. Been a reader since the 90s, was a lifeline for me when I was young. But it changed over the years beyond all recognition. I couldn't work it out or who it was for? Certainly none of my friends!

Winesalot Sat 12-Sep-20 16:26:45

It is such a shame that women lose their communities like this, so I can empathize with you.

It is also very dangerous for a magazine to take this attitude when income is dwindling and there is so much free well written content available.

PronounssheRa Sat 12-Sep-20 16:27:41

Nicola Adams is right

Hell yes, it's fucking insane to suggest men however they identify should box against women.

But boxing is only one tiny part of the problem

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