Diva magazine exclusively for TRAs now

[SapphosRock]

I’m pretty hacked off about it truth be told, especially since I’ve supported Diva and bought pretty much every issue since I came out as a lesbian in the late 90s.

I’m a member of Diva’s online community and someone recently posted about Nicola Adams (Olympic world champion boxer, used to identify as bisexual, recently came out as a lesbian).

Nicola has made the suggestion of having a separate category in boxing for trans women to compete with one another as she doesn’t believe it is fair for them to compete in the female category. Thread on it here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3834912-Olympic-Boxing-champ-Nicola-Adams-calls-for-transgender-athlete-categories-for-fairness#94290477

This seems completely fair enough, and there is an exception in the Equality Act for exactly this reason, to make women’s sport fair.

As Diva is (was?) mainly a place for lesbian women, quite a few in the online community spoke up in support of Nicola Adams.

A trans woman who is a prominent poster in the group wrote a long and detailed post to ‘educate’ everybody why it is completely fair for trans women to compete in female sport. Point 5 of her post states biological sex isn’t binary. Anyone who didn’t agree is a transphobe.

This was backed up by Linda Riley (Diva publisher) who compared debating the right of trans women to compete in female sport to debating ‘all lives matter’, not so subtly suggesting that questioning the fairness of trans women in sport is as bad as racism.

DIVA MAGAZINE IS OPENLY CLAIMING WOMEN ARE BIGOTED FOR QUESTIONING THE FAIRNESS OF A MALE BODIED PERSON HITTING AND PUNCHING A FEMALE BODIED PERSON IN SPORT.

I have absolutely no problem with Diva welcoming trans women into the community but centering trans activism like this is madness. I know I’ve posted here in defense of Diva before when other lesbians expressed concerns about the TRA / MRA ethos. Apologies I didn’t listen and feel free to tell me ‘I told you so’.

As a side note, the prominent TRA in Diva’s online community made Diva’s Pride Power list. Olympic world champion lesbian role model Nicola Adams did not.

www.pridepowerlist.com/the-list-2020.html

Sapphos

The problem allies have is nothing is ever enough, nothing. It doesnt matter that an ally might put the needs of a trans person ahead of their own, they still can never quite do enough. There is always something to chip at, whether that is boundaries, language or anything else.

There is a new kind of TRA who demands they are front and centre for everything, regardless of who else might get harmed.

Welcome to the dark side @SapphosRock. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. I hope you and your wife can agree to disagree because this has absolutely destroyed my relationships with women I hold very dear

@highame

so if all of you drop your subscriptions and there are only transbians left, that'll be interesting. I love this word transbians, have been trying to get my head around it for days.

Good luck you lot, I have loads of sympathy and feel you are being treated in the most horrendous way. I just don't get why the wokefems can't see it.

I suppose it depends whether the intention is to be seen as a lesbian or push women out and take something from them.

@Clymene

Welcome to the dark side *@SapphosRock*. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. I hope you and your wife can agree to disagree because this has absolutely destroyed my relationships with women I hold very dear

I’ve lost friends because of all this too. On the upside, I’ve also made friends because of all this, & they’re wonderful. I hope you & your wife can sort it out, Sappho.

Seriously, Sapphos. You've never noticed TRAs correcting allies like that? Is this a wind up?

I used to box in the forces. They trained us with men who were lighter than us and heavier than us to get a different experience each time.

The reasoning for this was "if you can fight a man and not get knocked out, you will not be hit as hard by a women".

Guess what. We lost every single time. No one was ever knocked out as the men didn't want to hit us hard enough to warrant that but they were training at about 50-60% effort whilst we would be flat out.

We always lost. We learnt how to dodge better.

Men are different biologically regardless of how they identify. It's genetics, biological whatever the fuck you want to call it. It's factual though. Men are stronger than women.

@PronounssheRa

Sapphos

The problem allies have is nothing is ever enough, nothing. It doesnt matter that an ally might put the needs of a trans person ahead of their own, they still can never quite do enough. There is always something to chip at, whether that is boundaries, language or anything else.

There is a new kind of TRA who demands they are front and centre for everything, regardless of who else might get harmed.

See Amanda Jette Knox for an example.

Nope Floral. I'm not on Twitter and the trans people I know IRL aren't activists. I've seen stuff shared on here but as someone upthread pointed out there are plenty of crazy people on the internet so I didn't think trans activism was such a big thing.

Now I'm seeing it, what I'm finding problematic is anyone with reasonable questions or concerns is immediately bullied into silence. Or met with 'do you know how many trans people commit suicide every year?' Which is really sad, but not relevant to a discussion about sport.

I'm late to the party aren't I?

Better late than never

Although that depends to be fair

Ds2s third birthday was 2 til 4 and i got a panicked phone call from another mum at 3.55pm

That is also very much true @EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus 💜🤍💚

But, Sapphos, while I take your point about the oddbods on Twitter, TRAs have come to FWR and attempted to coerce the language we use, and I don't even mean pronouns, I mean the supposed gap between trans and women. I mean, this isn't even just random screenshot Twitter stuff, this is in Stonewall style 'how to be an ally' advice posters.

Don't get me wrong, I am sad and happy that you've seen what is going on, but I am quite astonished, not at the change in perspective so much as the fact that you appear to have never noticed these things even though I'm pretty sure you and I have probably discussed them.

I wish you the best with navigating this with your wife. It's a big shift.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Although that depends to be fair

Ds2s third birthday was 2 til 4 and i got a panicked phone call from another mum at 3.55pm

It took me a little while to work out that this is probably posted on the wrong thread!

I think a lot of people can't see the demands for what they actually are and what is at stake by giving in to them . Because, let's be honest, they sound utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, TRAs are deadly serious. This is why we are so fucking angry and keep going over and over the same things on here so the penny can drop for anyone reading or contributing. Even for people like you Sapphos. I'm always hopeful that even the biggest TRA allies can see the light eventually. Sorry about the conflict with your wife. Hopefully her line will also be crossed at some point.

DialSquare I think it was referencing SapphosRock‘s late to the party comment.

😂😂😂😂 I like that though Dial

• a reminder that there is still normality somehete

Back to the thread. It took me a while to get to the “no no no” stage. So many ppl I love & respect are TWAW and I thought it was me missing something I really did. It seemed so obvious to me that it was not ok to let men say they were women & get access to all we fought for. How could ppl I admired say completely sincerely that these men had more right to these spaces than I did because I was “cis” and not oppressed. It must be me I thought, I must not be smart enough to see what they see

And then I realised it wasn’t me, it was them....it was devastating but I can’t go back to ignoring it, not now

Doh!
Been out for lunch with plenty of cocktails and wine! My brain must still be in the restaurant!

Well, honestly, I just hope the few people I know in RL who are eagerly TWAW will have an epiphany soon. I'm very done with trendy liberal Christians pretending not to be homophobic while having conversations about how lesbians and gay men are so wrong for not considering the opposite sex.

Sapphos

You mention sycophancy upthread, which is a great description, and is how you came across until this thread to be brutally honest. There is no need for women to be sychophantic unless, like Diva, your business model depends on it.

Oh wow Sapphos

I was surprised at some of your posts over the last couple days and now I see what's happened.

I must admit i thought you were a troll, or a GF. So I've learned something as well.

I hope things are ok with your wife. That's going to be really tricky.

Or met with 'do you know how many trans people commit suicide every year?' Which is really sad, but not relevant to a discussion about sport.

Yes it is really sad. However, to this point I am sure that you have had stats and links to hand from the many discussions you have been on here on MN to have worked out some truths. One thing I am grateful for here and on most platforms is that women use facts and peer reviewed studies to answer spurious claims.

@DialSquare

Doh! Been out for lunch with plenty of cocktails and wine! My brain must still be in the restaurant!

Its not you

Its deffo me 😀

Sapphos, I've often read your posts and thought 'how the hell can she not get why we are so annoyed. How can she defend this'. Then again I didn't see it at first. I wanted to be nice and kind but once seen you can't unsee it.

It takes guts to do what you have. For that you have my respect.

Welcome to the Wrong Crowd

Welcome to the party Sappho! 🎇🎉

It was very clever Rufus. I'm gutted I didn't get it immediately!But then I did originally type that I'd left my Brian in the restaurant and had to change it so there's not much hope for me I'm afraid!