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Posie Parker Interview

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wprice81 Sun 13-Oct-19 23:23:05

Is anyone else aware that Posie is doing an interview with controversial youtuber, j.f. gariepy? didn't expect to see that...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWw0PUokcgI

RadicalStitch Sun 13-Oct-19 23:40:38

Why's he controversial? Never heard of him,

AutumnCrow Sun 13-Oct-19 23:42:51

Who's that then, Ted?

Yeahnahyeah Sun 13-Oct-19 23:47:03

Good on her. She did one with Dangerfield a few weeks ago too (whoever he is). She told him she only has a cursory look at his feed, that she doesn't really care beyond a certain point what their politics are, as it is so important and urgent for people to understand what is going on.

I agree. The woman has ovaries of steel.

Posie wine flowers

GlitterToast Mon 14-Oct-19 00:12:26

I just Googled him, and Wiki claims that he's calling for a white ethnostate... not cool sadangry

5zeds Mon 14-Oct-19 00:18:29

I got about halfway through. Not for me.

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 00:40:27

Oh he is a serious MRA isn't he. He's like the Midnight Misogynist here isn't he? Nasty piece of work.

I love Posie, but she shouldn't have wasted her time talking to him.

RadicalStitch Mon 14-Oct-19 00:47:59

She's bloody brilliant, and I'm glad she's talking to anyone who will listen.
The comments in the vid are often MRA or anti Semitic.
It's a tough call, but I agree with her policy of getting the message out.

RadicalStitch Mon 14-Oct-19 00:49:02

Should clarify; I only listened to apx 10 mins earlier. Will listen to all tomorrow.

ChipOnMyOvary Mon 14-Oct-19 00:52:33

I watched it all. During it did not get particular sense of guys pov. She did brilliantly so good on her.

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 01:38:01

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 01:50:49

Also I’m not defending it but from when I lived in Quebec I did find most people were very anti immigration & it stems from their History. When the English arrived in Canada the Quebec people (who were ethnically French) fought the English (politically not through battle) to keep Quebec a separate French speaking part. They sort of have this obsession with only French people living in Quebec & have this paranoia about being colonised by another group (English or any foreign outsiders)

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 07:02:54

Samantha - I'd never heard of him before this thread - but I heard misogyny in his interview with posie last night.

He made every nasty MRA argument in the book.

He said: Women are responsible for break up of families, western women are the most privileged people who have ever existed, women are as violent as men, and just as likely to commit crime as men, but get away with it because people pity them.

He also seemed very offended by single mothers, and very offended that women thought they "could get a job and pay for their little apartment, and raise the children on their own" - gosh - how dare these uppity women want some independence?

He went on about women divorcing their husbands, and making false allegations in court, or threatening to.

^If that isn't misogyny, I don't know what is.

His racism and anti-semitism seems to be off the scale - and saying "oh, everyone's racist in Quebec does not excuse this. Vile man.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 07:44:14

Point of order - a friend of mine used to date a bloke from Quebec, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't particularly racist.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 07:49:13

everyone's racist in Quebec

deary, deary me. Is racism the way of his people? should we be respecting his ancient folkways?

moral relativism. it's not good folks

Whatisthisfuckery Mon 14-Oct-19 08:17:33

Posie can talk to whomsoever she likes. Doesn’t mean we have to like or agree with them. She probably doesn’t like or agree with them all either. Jesus, what is all this fear of speaking to people? You can’t catch right wing you know.

I cba to watch the video. I’m sure I’ve heard Posie say it all before so I don’t need to. The people who watch this bloke’s videos might not have, and just because they might be awful racists and misogynists doesn’t mean they’re not allowed to hear what she’s got to say either.

This whole ’I don’t like your views so you’re not allowed to hear me and I won’t talk to you’ nonsense is all a bit school playground. Grow the fuck up.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 08:25:09

Something to bear in mind is that there are lots of women who don't share your/my political views who are nonetheless impacted by all the gender stuff because they're women. Some of them will also have children who it has an impact on. I'd like it if those women were aware of what's happening so that they could respond accordingly, wouldn't you?

I feel like this is probably a divide between those for whom feminism is their primary affiliation, in which case all women matter and deserve a seat at the table when discussing the impact gender ideology has on them, and those for whom being on the left is the primary affiliation, who may object to attempts to reach out to right wing women. Most here probably affiliate with both political philosophies, but on some issues primary affiliation may tip the balance.

I'm very left but even more feminist and very much in favor of bringing right wing women to the table. This guy I don't like at all, but if a few women watch his channel and see what Posie has to say then that may prompt them to get involved. This is such a massive issue that I'm glad there are some GC women who'll talk to pretty much anyone.

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 08:50:14

I'd never heard of him before this thread - but I heard misogyny in his interview with posie last night

He’s had a bitter divorce & so his views are somewhat clouded when it comes to family courts. He’s not saint I’ll say that but as someone who’s watched his show a lot the only time I’ve seen him be vaguely misogynistic is when he’s talking about family courts etc. If you watched his show regularly you wouldn’t think he was some hardcore MRA/misogynist & there’s no way I’d be able to watch him if he was, but I agree on this issue he is really really bad.

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 09:20:16

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 09:22:24

High IQ

blimey. from 'you should listen to complex nuanced views' to throwing insults around in 3 posts. is this some kind of record?

KatvonHostileExtremist Mon 14-Oct-19 09:34:44

grin bernard

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 09:39:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 09:41:08

Are you having some sort of episode thesamantha1990?

Should we send for help?

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 09:44:58

What? I was responding to your comment? You haven’t rebutted anything I said?

Scoring high in literacy isn’t associated with having a high IQ, I’m just educating you on something you don’t know much about. You can google it if you don’t believe me, Dr Dutton has work on this.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 09:44:59

I've always wondered what random unnecessary capitalization indicates about a person's mental state. There's a certainly a bit of a pattern to who uses it.

LangCleg Mon 14-Oct-19 09:50:40

I’m just educating you on something you don’t know much about.

LOL

<genuflects to very important newbie>

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 09:51:15

Also irrational non sequiturs and pointless aggression

I feel that if I gave a shit I could be building up quite the mental picture

LangCleg Mon 14-Oct-19 09:53:53

I think it's interesting to see Posie engage with anti-feminists on the right. She pokes and prods over a shared opposition to extremist genderism. As Kittens points out, it may well be the first time viewers have actually seen feminist arguments presented, rather than the anti-feminist fake news narrative about what feminists are actually saying.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 10:02:46

if there's anyone who can confidently debate with anti feminist right wingers it's Posie

it's a really brave and interesting way to go

also, due to not being her keeper I'm fine with her talking to whoever she likes

Ineedacupofteadesperately Mon 14-Oct-19 10:10:48

I do think this squeamishness about talking to others with different opinions - even those you suspect you might find abhorrent - is a bit, well, lets say ill-advised. Know your enemy and all that. I feel it's a win win. Posie is bringing the truth about genderism to a wider audience (even if it might be an audience of people we don't particularly like - presumably they still have the right to protect their kids) and I now know about another man who has misogynistic views. So if anyone brings him up in conversation I'll know who he is.

Additional knowledge can be uncomfortable but I think on balance it is usually a good thing.

Also, what Lang said.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers Mon 14-Oct-19 10:11:52

Hi Samantha I have a degree in the physical sciences and was raised by physicists so is it OK if I comment?

IQ is a very narrow measure of intelligence as I'm sure you are aware so I'm not sure why you brought it up in this case.

Ordinarily I would take on board your point about Pew studies over anecdote but making comments about other's IQ is rather unnecessary and distracts from it.

Somerville Mon 14-Oct-19 10:13:44

Poise can do Posie.

I’m most interested in raising GC (and feminist) issues with people who haven’t had a chance for exposure to them bec

ArnoldWhatshisknickers Mon 14-Oct-19 10:15:59

On the topic at hand, I seem to recall Julie Bindel shared a platform with Milo Yiannopoulos and there was a level of agreement between them regarding another member of the panel who likes to knit.

It is OK to discuss with people you don't agree with in other areas. If it wasn't we'd all be muttering to ourselves in our corners.

OhWhatACarveUp Mon 14-Oct-19 10:18:24

I find this quite disturbing. I'm all for engaging with opposing views, but I would add a caveat that these opposing views should be within a mainstream. If you're going on alt-right shows, hoping to get a sympathetic hearing, then you might want to rethink your strategy. I think Posie hurts the cause here.

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 10:24:23

I was just defending myself? That person was implying that because I’m in a rush & not typing well on an iPhone I’m unintelligent?

I’m pointing out that that goes against all IQ literature we have. It’s the bumbling scientist stereotype who doesn’t communicate well (the James Watson’s of the world) who have the highest IQ’s & achieve the most, & people like Russel Brand who’d score high in literacy don’t score high in general intelligence.

I know of JF because he’s a Quebec scientist & I had friends who knew him when i worked in Montreal. I’ve never met him but that’s how I knew about his channel.

And it’s always hilarious for scientists to be patronised by someone who probably doesn’t have a real job.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 10:24:26

I think Posie hurts the cause here

I'm not sure what part of 'there is no organised single GC cause' is so tricky to understand

individual women make individual decisions about what they want to do

it's a good thing

Somerville Mon 14-Oct-19 10:27:41

Toddler grabbed my phone hmm

... with women who haven’t been exposed to our position because of poverty, language barrier, etc. And with girls under a barrage of gender ideology at school. That’s where I want the focus - or at least to focus personally. And those women and girls are actively out off of our position when they see engagement with racists.

So despite no interest in political or ideological purity, this isn’t for me.

Somerville Mon 14-Oct-19 10:28:18

*PUT off

LangCleg Mon 14-Oct-19 10:28:38

And it’s always hilarious for scientists to be patronised by someone who probably doesn’t have a real job.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

<genuflects again to very important newbie as clearly once was insufficient>

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 10:36:03

is Russell Brand big in Canada?

Actually I think I was getting him mixed up with Russell Cane, who I also loathe

Or maybe Russell Howard?

Actually, if I can have my choice of Russells I'd go for Crowe, but he's not allowed to speak and has to wear the Gladiator costume

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 10:37:09

Mums don't have real jobs, you see.

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 10:42:06

I don't agree that Posie has damaged the cause at all - my comment on "she's wasting her time" is that she's talking to an entrenched MRA who (bitter divorce or not) has a very derogatory view of women. As I said, it was all the MRA arguments I have heard before and exactly like one of the MRA threads on here started by our midnight visitors.

Anyway, it was in sharp contrast to the Dangerfield video - which was extremely funny - very worthwhile - and also by a man who I am politically opposed to.

I have no problem with posie talking to alt-righters - but I do reserve the right to harshly criticise those alt-righters when the interview is full of MRA anti-women tripe grin

Anyway, as you were wink

Ineedacupofteadesperately Mon 14-Oct-19 10:43:00

Well, I haven't got through the whole video yet but I wish Posie had suggested he read the Relationships board of mumsnet to find out reasons that women might want to leave someone who hasn't been unfaithful. I think it might help him gain a lot of insight.

OhWhatACarveUp Mon 14-Oct-19 10:43:04

I'm not sure what part of 'there is no organised single GC cause' is so tricky to understand. Individual women make individual decisions about what they want to do

Let me put it another way, by going on such platforms, Posie damages her cause.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 10:46:23

Let me put it another way, by going on such platforms, Posie damages her cause

that's a much better way to put it

it's also her problem if she damages her cause, no one else needs to take responsibility for her actions

also I don't think she's damaging her cause. pretending that people you disagree with don't exist doesn't make them actually not exist

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 10:58:57

I can’t read the whole thread as I’m in a rush but I just wanted to correct someone who was making bogus intelligence claims I wanted to correct.

Scientists are aware that the people who contribute the most to the world and the ones who seem the most “autistic” if that makes sense. So we’ll put up with working with people who vocally & socially aren’t the best but are geniuses with 150+ IQ’s. These are the people keeping you all alive with research, technology, medical advancements. You could all be a bit more grateful. You’d all likely be dead in your twenties if it wasn’t for these people.

I don’t like being told by an empty headed Humanities graduate how unintelligent I am when I have a PhD & I’m contributing more to society than they ever will. It’s pretty rude. We have a generation of arrogant people with pointless degrees that contribute nothing to the Physical world.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 11:03:30

I'm not sure talking aggressively about something completely unrelated to the topic under discussion is the best indicator of any kind of intelligence

it's kind of like barging into the pub, shouting 'Russell Brand has a lower IQ than me' and then running out again

a little strange, is what i'm saying

vaginafetishist Mon 14-Oct-19 11:03:39

grinyou funny

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost Mon 14-Oct-19 11:07:05

anyone who knows 1% of IQ literally knows that.

IQ is pretty useless anyway, i have 130 IQ but couldn't tie my shoes until adulthood.

I know which thing would have been more useful to know growing up.

SpartacusAutisticus Mon 14-Oct-19 11:13:18

What the fuck is this shit about policing who women speak to?

Give your heads a wobble FFS.

ClosdesMouches Mon 14-Oct-19 11:13:19

grin Bernard

SpartacusAutisticus Mon 14-Oct-19 11:14:00

And IQ has fuck all to do with autism.

Showing your stupidity there Samantha.

OhWhatACarveUp Mon 14-Oct-19 11:17:10

What the fuck is this shit about policing who women speak to?

LOL, having an opinion is not policing. If Posie wants to share a platform and get endorsement from racists, that is her right.

NewNameGuy Mon 14-Oct-19 11:20:36

I've never heard about this guy but watched half the interview so far.

GREAT STUFF dialogue around the issues, disagreeing on some things, nice

Deadringer Mon 14-Oct-19 11:20:37

I thought Posie was brilliant. But did anyone listen to it until the end, after she was gone? One of the callers wanted to know if Posie was Jewish, he was chuckling and saying it wasn't relevant but she didn't seem to have any features of Jewery. Wtf?

Ineedacupofteadesperately Mon 14-Oct-19 11:22:04

Oooh, did I miss the bit of MN sign up where we all have to say what our qualifications are?

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 11:22:40

These are the oddest rants I've seen in a while. All scientists are autistic! People normally die in their twenties! Everyone on MN has a humanities degree!

(Mine's actually a science degree, btw. Didn't realize autism was required. Does this work in reverse? If you're on the spectrum and apply for a history degree are they meant to refuse you a place and redirect you to the physics program? What if you really like history?)

ArnoldWhatshisknickers Mon 14-Oct-19 11:25:09

You'd all be dead without cleaners, bin men, farmers, care workers.

Many of the most important jobs can be done by any able bodied person so you'll have to excuse me while I don't sneer at people whose IQ may or may not be lower than my own which I don't know anyway as I've never taken an IQ test what with them being pretty meaningless anyway.

And Posie can talk to whoever she damn well pleases.

And 'alt-right' is another meaningless term that is flung at everyone from outright white supremicists to comedians who smoke too much pot and once had the temerity to interview Ben Shapiro on their podcast. So frankly I have no idea if some Canadian bloke I've never heard of is actually 'alt-right' or not.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 11:25:26

I suspect our visitor may be a useful indicator of the type of audience that normally consume Mr gariepy’s output

Takes all sorts I suppose

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 11:28:43

But did anyone listen to it until the end, after she was gone? One of the callers wanted to know if Posie was Jewish, he was chuckling and saying it wasn't relevant but she didn't seem to have any features of Jewery. Wtf?

Yes. That's why I said this interview was a waste of time. I mean, I'm all for engaging with opposing political views - but that was beyond the pale for me. I guess I'm just not used to hearing stuff like that outside of "Rise of the Nazis" type documentaries...

But apparently - and thanks to Samantha for this enlightenment - he's ever so clever, and "everyone in Quebec is racist", so that's fine... hmm

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 11:30:12

everyone in Quebec is racist

Feels a little defamatory no? Also a really shit excuse for being a racist

CarWreck Mon 14-Oct-19 11:30:39

I actually think Russell Brand would score really highly on an IQ test, and didn't Katie Perry reveal that he actually trained as a surgeon for a year or so? She's one of those sapiosexuals, isn't she, so wouldn't have married him otherwise?

[Right, while newbie poster is distracted responding to that, let's discuss the matter in hand. I think it's an interesting tactic that will unfortunately feed into the hands of ppl saying (incorrectly) that all radfems are buddies with Nazis, but it's better than "no debate". My own personal experience arguing with MRAs on Twitter is that it's pointless as their goalposts shift all the time, but with an audience it might be now productive?]

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 11:31:10

Any to think my only stereotype about people from Quebec was that they really like poutine...

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 11:46:38

Do men who choose to speak to slightly unsavoury people get this sort of response? I’m trying to think of analogous examples

OhWhatACarveUp Mon 14-Oct-19 11:49:13

Do men who choose to speak to slightly unsavoury people get this sort of response? I’m trying to think of analogous examples

Jeremy Corbyn?

ArnoldWhatshisknickers Mon 14-Oct-19 11:51:58

I recall Corbyn being criticised for only talking to one side eg IRA but not UDLA/UVF or Palestinians but not Israelis. I don't recall him being criticised for talking to those with opposing views though.

LangCleg Mon 14-Oct-19 11:52:08

I don’t like being told by an empty headed Humanities graduate how unintelligent I am when I have a PhD & I’m contributing more to society than they ever will. It’s pretty rude.

<can't be arsed genuflecting a third time: too busy pissing myself laughing>

You funny. Stick around!

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 11:52:17

It's to do with the idea that if women aren't perfect then we're terrible - angels or witches with no middle ground.

I think Posie's goal is to get the word out to as many people as possible. She/we can't control what those people do with that information and shouldn't be trying to. What we ideally want, I think, is a massive grassroots pushback against gender ideology coming from as many different groups of people as possible. If it's coming from just one group it's relatively easy to shut down, less so if it's pretty much everyone objecting other than a small group of devoted cultists.

LangCleg Mon 14-Oct-19 11:55:04

I think Posie's goal is to get the word out to as many people as possible. She/we can't control what those people do with that information and shouldn't be trying to. What we ideally want, I think, is a massive grassroots pushback against gender ideology coming from as many different groups of people as possible. If it's coming from just one group it's relatively easy to shut down, less so if it's pretty much everyone objecting other than a small group of devoted cultists.

I'm a bit scared about this outbreak of common sense.

I was getting quite into soap opera mode, which seems to be the theme du jour.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 11:55:16

Interesting

I did roll my eyes hard re Corbyn and the PLO

But it really looked like he was honouring terrorists and he wants to be prime minister, so not quite the same I think

Posie is very much an individual. She doesn’t represent any one else

BlackberryNettles Mon 14-Oct-19 11:59:06

Found online about him

On a 27 October 2017 Drunken Peasants livestream, Gariépy discussed his relationship with an autistic Drunken Peasants fan-girl who had an intellectual disability. Gariépy stated that "unfortunately, the state of Texas has ruled that she could not decide to be with me".[transcript 1] On an 18 December 2017 Andy Warski livestream, Gariépy further described the girl as being 19 years old, as his fiancée, and as being autistic and being "mentally retarded". Gariépy also asserted that the girl's father kidnapped her in order to prevent her from living with him and was intimidated by the court system.[transcript 2]

Since he claimed the incident happened around 2015, that means he would have been dating a disabled 19-year-old when he was about 31 years old. His claims about sex with autistic women are especially concerning when you consider that autistic women are about 3 times as likely as non-autistic women to experience sexual abuse.[30]

On 28 December 2017, Steven "Destiny" Bonnell read aloud the entirety of a court document from Gariépy's 29 August 2016 petition for writ of mandamusWikipedia's W.svg to the Texas Ninth Court of Appeals. Afterwards, he reached substantially different conclusions from Gariépy. Destiny asserted:[31][32]

Pota2 Mon 14-Oct-19 11:59:45

Fucking hell. Not surprised at her but surprised that so many still leap to defend this shit. Must be nice to be able to just dismiss the racism etc as something unimportant. Others can’t of course. And no, it’s not just about talking to anyone who will listen. Since when was it okay to have abandon all principles? If these people or those with similar views gain power then we will be in significantly deeper shit than now.
And of course the TRAs are convinced that we all love this woman (I personally think she is as odious as Katie Hopkins), so it tars anyone GC with the same brush.

BlackberryNettles Mon 14-Oct-19 12:00:00

"Apparently, JF [Gariépy] was married to a woman [...] in another [US] state. He went down – according totheir[the parent's] side of the story, now this is one side of the story. Um, apparently he went down, he found a woman that wasseverelymentally disabled, the psychiatrist said that she had the mental capacity of a 10- or 11-year-old, tried to have a baby with her, and was trying to bring her back to wherever he lived to have a baby. He was convinced that they were fiancees, even though he's still married to another woman and there are no divorce proceedings filed. And he's also convinced that she's pregnant, even though apparently there's no evidence of her being pregnant. So he thought that he was the fiancee to somebody that was ruled as being – that having the mental faculty of a 10- or 11-year-old. Um, and then I guess her parents were, were – filed to get guardianship of this young girl because they thought she was being taken advantage of, that JF [Gariépy] was trying to capture her, take her to another state, and then make her into a baby machine. Um, and apparently the young girl didn't object to her parents becoming her guardians.Holy shit."

BlackberryNettles Mon 14-Oct-19 12:06:04

As for IQ, it is not the be all and end all, and is actually very controversial in the psychology of intelligence measurement and not even a psychologist would judge someone's intelligence purely on one score on a test.

OhWhatACarveUp Mon 14-Oct-19 12:07:01

The last thing I'll say on this. I saw a stupid comic (I won't post it directly but here's a link if you're interested). It makes the argument that radical feminists are aligned with the Religious Right (and by extension, other far-right groups) on this one issue (I don't agree). By going on such fringe shows, Posie Parker (and it's not the first time she has associated with pretty unpleasant characters) gives ammunition to TRAs.

Posie is just an individual but she does have a following.

Ineedacupofteadesperately Mon 14-Oct-19 12:14:20

Honestly, TRAs would find ammunition anyway and if they don't have any they make it up. They don't engage with facts or evidence or truth so it doesn't really matter.

It's clear nothing is ever enough- the FWR rules show this. Bending over backwards to police our language and STILL they don't want us to talk. Because women must be seen and not heard.

Posie doesn't represent anyone but herself and she can do what she wants. I think the more people that hear about this - particularly the real harms to children - the better.

Pota2 Mon 14-Oct-19 12:20:28

Well, it’s shit like this that means that so many won’t speak out about it, so it makes little difference even if they hear about it. And made up links to the far right can obviously be dispelled. A bit hard when it’s actually true.

The GRA reforms will never be part of an election campaign so what the ‘masses’ think isn’t actually the most important thing. I think the fact that it’s already featured heavily in the most circulated newspapers means that maybe this interview isn’t essential for spreading the message. The key is persuading politicians and policy makers that these concerns are legitimate. That’s not done by fraternising with people like this.

Earlywalker Mon 14-Oct-19 12:25:40

Do people still think of Posie as a feminist? I thought she was just GC?

I said it when she went to USA to rub shoulders with alt right anti-women’s rights activists - you lay down with dogs you get fleas.

But if shes no longer pretending to be a feminist and just wants to get her GC points out then that’s her prerogative I guess

Pota2 Mon 14-Oct-19 12:30:16

People lump it all together and see it as the same thing. I don’t think she even claims to be GC as she endorses some quite strong trad wife/woman type rhetoric in some of her videos. But she is anti the reform of the GRA. Just as many fundamentalist Christians believe that woman= adult human female but they don’t have an issue with gender roles.

Ineedacupofteadesperately Mon 14-Oct-19 12:30:42

Well personally speaking, far from it making me feel I can't speak out I find Posie, whoever she talks to, rather inspiring. Being a woman and having a science degree or two means that I often feel I can't speak unless I'm completely evidence based with a long list of references to hand. And being a 'busy mum' I don't have time for that on every single issue all the time.

I find it rather refreshing the way Posie will say it how she sees it to whomever wishes to speak to her. It gives me courage.

I also think speaking to someone isn't the same as 'having links to'. If that's the case I've got 'links to' Sainsbury's as I often have a chat about politics or other issues with my delivery driver.....

BlackberryNettles Mon 14-Oct-19 12:30:46

And made up links to the far right can obviously be dispelled. A bit hard when it’s actually true.

Impossible when they actually call themselves an alt-righter too

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 12:32:32

OhWhatACarveUp - just to say, cartoons like that against feminists ave existed since way before the trans debates.

The exact same thing used to be thrown at feminists who were against porn and the sex industry - we were accused then of aligning ourselves with fundamental far right Christians, because they were also anti-porn.

Women who campaigned for the vote were called whores and ugly - also a flurry of very nasty cartoons and postcards did the rounds then.

I've attached a vintage anti-suffrage postcard that isn't a million miles away from the "anti-terf" memes that circulate on twitter now.

Any time a woman behaves in a way that distinguishes herself from a doormat - this happens.

Pota2 Mon 14-Oct-19 12:40:16

I honestly can’t see what’s so ‘refreshing’ about it. It’s talking to a highly dubious alt-righter on his YouTube channel, so obviously exposing yourself to his following. It’s not like it’s a major broadcaster or something. I guess anyone could talk to him but choosing to do so does say something about that person and whether or not they agree with everything he has to say, it shows some sort of sympathy. Or at least that’s the way it comes across to onlookers.

As I said before, this is not an issue that will ever go to a public vote. Our system doesn’t work like that. It will be a matter of persuading those in charge of policy that it’s a legitimate argument and not just hate, as alleged by the TRAs. If you then buddy up with the right wing (which this is- I highly doubt she will rip into him for what he has said about women and race), it’s less likely that people will think it is legitimate. She’s no idiot so I suspect this is all about publicity and building a ‘brand’ as someone ‘notorious’.

Pota2 Mon 14-Oct-19 12:43:14

zebras you have a point but I think you can be a non-doormat and retain your principles. It’s quite a libfem argument to say ‘being feminist means women get to do what they like and nobody can criticise them’. We do get to be critical when it’s seen to endorse a harmful viewpoint. This man is a misogynistic racist and any oxygen he gets is a waste.

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 12:45:51

Pota2 - did you read my previous posts - I don't think I could've made it any clearer that I hate this man! grin

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 12:46:38

Just making the point that feminists have nasty cartoons made about them no matter what they do.

zebrasdontwearbras Mon 14-Oct-19 12:50:51

We do get to be critical when it’s seen to endorse a harmful viewpoint.

Pota2, I made the exact same point when I said this earlier:

"but I do reserve the right to harshly criticise those alt-righters when the interview is full of MRA anti-women tripe"

Melroses Mon 14-Oct-19 13:05:28

I can't count the number of times I have seen 'left eating the left', 'lgbt eating its own tail' and 'feminisim turning on itself' in the comments in newspapers and online.

Self-id will affect these people too and they need to wake up to that for common sense to prevail. I doubt they are open to feminist ways of thinking because they will have their fingers too firmly in their ears. Posie has a good no-nonsense style that works and isn't afraid to use it.

We always hear that you have to talk to all sides to bring consensus, and that is what she is doing.

thesamantha1990 Mon 14-Oct-19 13:23:34

Actually most alt righters & feminists are in complete agreement on trans issues, they agree on very little else but this issue they tend to agree.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 13:24:46

Most people are in complete agreement on trans issues, they're just too scared to openly say so because they might get sacked.

Ineedacupofteadesperately Mon 14-Oct-19 13:28:18

Most people are in complete agreement on trans issues, they're just too scared to openly say so because they might get sacked.

Yes.

Or arrested in front of their children, denied sanpro for hours and forcibly separated from a breastfed baby.

Or attacked.

andyoldlabour Mon 14-Oct-19 13:44:08

"I can't count the number of times I have seen 'left eating the left', 'lgbt eating its own tail' and 'feminisim turning on itself' in the comments in newspapers and online."

This is very common, and it makes me really mad and frustrated, because it is true, and it means that I will probably just spoil my vote in the next election. You have far left movements such as Momentum, massive embracement of identity politics and 1001 ways of being hurt/insulted/traumatised, whilst the country is in crisis.
I have watched videos of Posie, and she comes across as being intelligent, very calm and controlled in interviews - Harrop, Cashman. She deals with facts, she will not be forced to believe something which is patently untrue.
I doubt that she would agree with all my views, or vice versa, but that is life.

Floisme Mon 14-Oct-19 14:01:06

I think that talking about Posie as if she's letting a side down is missing the point. I don't think she describes herself as a feminist, let alone a radical one. I believe she uses the term 'women's activist'. From what I've seen, I would say the main thing that makes her tick is her belief in free speech. I think that if you view what she says and does through that prism then it makes sense Do I worry about her sometimes? Hell yes but she's a grown woman and she's not in any club.

MagneticSingularity Mon 14-Oct-19 14:05:07

There’s that thing I’ve read on: “when someone tells you who they are - believe them” see, PP told me who she is a long time ago.

I don’t buy the reductivism from the PP apologists here. Well she only speaks for herself? Nah. Stop it. If you’re bigging her up, she’s speaking for you too. Ovaries of steel? Nah. How is it brave to seek out alt-right and ultra conservative platforms from which to express views they already share? She’s preaching to the sexist, homophobic and racist choir ffs.

PP is not a feminist, she’s not even GC IMO; she’s coming from a place of homophobia and transphobia (and of making a name for herself in order to sell t-shirts in North America) not a place concerned with women’s rights. If that were the case, she’d be out there trying to get the women in the centrist political wilderness in the US and Canada on board not alienating them by aligning herself with political extremists.

IfNot Mon 14-Oct-19 14:18:15

I don't know. It's true that Posie is not the leader of a movement or anything, BUT she does have a lot of exposure. She does the Adult Human Female T-shirts doesn't she? She has plenty of influence just from those, plus the events she has hosted.
I don't care if she describes herself a feminist or not, and I supported the U.S trip on the whole, but this You Tuber she has done an interview with seems like an absolute fucking turd.
She has the public profile now to be a bit pickier who she sits next to, surely? It's really a load of shite (or disingenuous in MN speak) to claim that the GC/anti self id cause is just bunch of random individuals doing their own thing with no responsibilities. All public figures with a cause have to be careful who, or what, they endorse.
And it's easy to shrug off that she is chatting happily with a racist if you are never going to be that target of that racist.

TinaBarrow Mon 14-Oct-19 14:19:13

She calls herself a women's rights activist and a single issue campaigner.

I think she's marvellous. Yes, ovaries of steel.

Also, she says she's a happily married woman, which last time I checked, wasn't a crime.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 14:27:46

People get a bit irrational when the subject of Posie doing what she wants without agonising or referring to others is raised

I find it very interesting

TheProdigalKittensReturn Mon 14-Oct-19 14:36:48

I find the "men won't give us our rights if some women seem to be keeping questionable company" aspect of the conversation particularly interesting/depressing. Sometimes I wonder to what extent that's been internalized and whether the people saying it believe that we don't deserve rights unless we can prove that we're beyond reproach.

ACertainIdea Mon 14-Oct-19 14:52:29

@MagneticSingularity 👏👏👏

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly Mon 14-Oct-19 14:56:14

And it’s the idea that we must all take collective responsibility for everything every other woman does

If one woman does something that some unspecified moral arbiter disagrees with then none of us can have nice things

So strange

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