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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Girlguiding update

556 replies

AgnesBadenPowell · 22/07/2018 21:48

I've been a bit quiet lately. I'm under investigation, which I can't discuss in any detail, although my membership is now at risk. In the meantime, I'm still a leader and Girlguiding has not changed its stance on trans issues. The following is a bit of a stream of consciousness but I'm feeling quite troubled by it and need to let it out! I'd also be interested in what parents of rainbows think.

I took my rainbows on a sleepover this weekend. It was great! It also really bought home to me the risks posed by the trans policy. I feel quite upset and tearful about it.

We had 20 rainbows in a church hall. Three women leaders, including me, also slept in the main hall - at one end, out of the way, with our own sleeping mats and bags etc - but in the same room. The other women leaders slept in an adjoining room (more of a lobby really).

The adults used the gents toilets and the girls used the ladies and disabled facilities. Despite this some girls weren’t too bothered and just changed in the hall! One nosy rainbow followed me into the gents - luckily I was only brushing my teeth and not changing - and of course I shooed her out.

How would a set up like this (which is pretty common) work with a trans child or adult? We could look for new venues with more rooms/options but Girlguiding’s stance is that the trans child and adult should use the facilities of their chosen gender. And if parents aren’t aware of the single gender/mixed sex policy, they aren’t in a position to complain or take their children out.

On a personal note, the two other leaders in the hall are women that I don’t know very well. One of them I’ve only met once before, she’s a brownie leader who came to help so we met our ratios. My sleeping mat was right next to hers as there wasn’t much space. It was fine but I could not have done this with a self identified (ie male at birth) transwoman. I don’t know any woman who would feel safe sleeping right next to a male bodied person they had only met once before. And I should never, ever be expected to do so. For all the make up, dresses, female names, most transwomen do not have bottom surgery and retain their male genitalia. I would never be expected to share sleeping accommodation with a man I don’t know (or even ones I do - I’m not sharing a room with my male colleague on a business trip next week) so why would it be acceptable in Girlguiding, provided the male said he feels female?

It really hit home that it’s only fair and reasonable to expect people of the same sex to share spaces like this. I really don’t want to make trans people feel bad or left out - but my dignity, my girls dignity and privacy, is every bit as important as theirs.

OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 22/09/2018 11:35

"To make sure we offer activities that are
modern and relevant for all girls, we asked
girls, parents and volunteers what they want
and need from Girlguiding, and now we’re
acting on what they told us. We’ve been
on a journey to transform what girls do in
Girlguiding, to bring all our badges and
activities bang up to date.
Now every girl will have new opportunities
to explore emotions and learn about herself,
develop her creativity, learn how to stay
healthy and how to help others when they’re
hurt. "

These sound very gendered. Not that any of them are bad obviosuly, they all fine in and of themselves but as a group they are a heavily gendered bunch of things.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 22/09/2018 11:37

They have not definined who they spoke to in the docuemtn about attitudes, they just talk abotu "girls" as if eveyone knows what that is.

This is an oversight.

ChattyLion · 22/09/2018 11:43

Thank you - right found the job ad. Closes in October. That job ad is coded for idiocy- our guides may be female but the adults involved are mixed gender. WTF?

Very surprised at very reputable high level executive recruiter Sax Bam getting involved with this.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/jobs-at-girlguiding/vacancies/chief-executive/

www.saxbam.com/candidate-opportunities/#

NothingOnTellyAgain · 22/09/2018 12:30

oops sorry got the date wrong in my post.
i thought we were in october for some reason!

SeaRabbit · 22/09/2018 15:51

Hi I haven't read the full thread but I caught the activities as listed on the Charities Commission website.

Has anyone complained to the Commission about them being outside their charitable purposes? (I am not a lawyer, but it might be worth chatting to a charity lawyer)

ChattyLion · 23/09/2018 05:15

Update here- GGUK have started expelling leaders who question their trans policy:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3373458-girlguiding-expels-leaders-who-question-trans-policy?watched=1&msgid=81239300#81239300

Sad

This is awful.

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