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Please do Scottish self-id consultation (even if not Scottish)

(186 Posts)
okMaybeIAmATERF Thu 25-Jan-18 12:49:30

Here's the URL: please do the consultation. (I think this has been posted before, but it bears repeating.)
To note:
1) At the end, you will be asked whether you are resident in Scotland, the rest of the UK, or elsewhere - i.e. you don't have to be in Scotland, though obviously it's more important to be heard if you are.
2) You will also be asked whether you want your response published with your name, without your name, or not at all - if that makes a difference to how you write your answers, it might be helpful to know this up front.
Closes on March 1st, but don't wait till then!

KissMaCis Thu 25-Jan-18 13:03:13

Done and shared.

Patodp Thu 25-Jan-18 13:10:21

Is there one of these for England?

MadCap Thu 25-Jan-18 13:16:34


Mumsnut Thu 25-Jan-18 13:17:12

"Should legal gender recognition stop being a ground of divorce or dissolution?"

Blimey. So the auld man could get himself declared a woman and I wouldn't be able to divorce him on those grounds?

okMaybeIAmATERF Thu 25-Jan-18 13:20:24

That's right, @Mumsnut . Instead you'd have to wait one year, if he agreed, or two years, if he didn't.

GuardianLions Thu 25-Jan-18 13:20:59

Thanks for posting this again with this title - I did it a few weeks back after having overlooked the Scottish consultation thread thinking it didn't apply to me and then I read down and saw that I could participate - so hopefully, worded this way there'll be more takers!

SteelyPip Thu 25-Jan-18 13:21:55


AdultHumanFemale Thu 25-Jan-18 14:10:19

I am staggered by the strangeness of this document. It shows such a clear bias and ignorance. The question about how to handle civil partnerships is weird; it sort of coyly explains that if one member of a same sex couple gets a GRC there will be 'a man and a woman in a civil partnership'. Eh?! To which I responded:
A Gender Recognition Certificate does not change someone's SEX, their actual BIOLOGY, so no, it would NOT be a man (xy chromosomes) and a woman (xx chromosomes) in a civil partnership, it would still be a SAME SEX couple, in which one partner IDENTIFIES as the opposite sex. So not actually changing anything biologically.
Or am l missing something? This should not need to be spelled out, unless they think it's already a done deal.

DodoPatrol Thu 25-Jan-18 14:15:22

I see they require you to give an email address.
It says something, doesn't it, that doing that for a government organization feels risky.

okMaybeIAmATERF Thu 25-Jan-18 14:29:26

The current situation is that the law does not make a clear distinction between sex and gender, so legally, a gender recognition certificate does change someone's sex. (There's a quotation in the consultation document that is a real classic of "thinking those terms are synonyms".)

I have come to, and expressed in the consultation, a position I wouldn't have believed a couple of years ago that I'd ever travel in the direction of, let along arrive at: I don't think anyone should be given a gender recognition certificate, under any circumstances. Instead, I think we should rigorously examine the cases where sex is held to be relevant and make sure it isn't allowed to be used except where it is relevant. (Which mostly means applying the current sex discrimination legislation better, but may require some further action, e.g., not allowing employers to have separate rules about dress and makeup for men and for women.)

okMaybeIAmATERF Thu 25-Jan-18 14:30:29

(I used an email address that gets to me, but which I have not given to anything but this consultation. So if it leaks, I'll know it.)

SchrodingersFrilledLizard Thu 25-Jan-18 14:37:35


Maryz Thu 25-Jan-18 14:56:39

I was having a look at that, and I just want to post "don't be ridiculous" in the comments for pretty much every question.

Which I don't suppose is very useful [sigh]

mineallmine Thu 25-Jan-18 15:18:15


MarSeeAh Thu 25-Jan-18 15:19:42

I started to complete it last night, and am struggling for the same reasons as Maryz. The whole thing is a nonsense, and it's quite surreal having to respond to questions and propositions which make no sense whatsoever.

It's like being asked, "If grey sky be blue, should the trees have the potential of pink leaves?"

NKFell Thu 25-Jan-18 15:37:58

I've done it but it is a complete load of shite!

It's like being asked, "If grey sky be blue, should the trees have the potential of pink leaves?" -
It really is MarSeeAh!

Maryz Thu 25-Jan-18 15:39:40

I kept wanting to say "is that sex or gender you mean in that question?"

I couldn't get my answers in any way cohesive at all - yy to the pink leaves quote.

ArcheryAnnie Thu 25-Jan-18 16:37:38

I see they require you to give an email address.
It says something, doesn't it, that doing that for a government organization feels risky.

This. I've filled it out without holding back. I've not yet found quite the courage to press "submit".

grasspigeons Thu 25-Jan-18 17:23:03

I couldn't work out the non-binary section at all. What is did it mean - I think id given up by that point.

Yes it feels scary giving your email address to the government who are rubbish at controlling data and on a controversial issue.

k2p2k2tog Thu 25-Jan-18 17:23:47

Done - I'm resident in Scotland.

grasspigeons Thu 25-Jan-18 17:33:16

I identify as Scottish
I eat haggis and have a tartan blanket

DodoPatrol Thu 25-Jan-18 17:50:58

Sent it now, under an old email address that I can check if I need to.

For the non-binary bit, I essentially just wrote 'Non-binary applies to anyone who isn't a walking stereotype, so no.'

I flatly refuse to believe that anyone sane is deeply distressed by not being allowed to change their name and pronouns daily like their contact lenses.

Bravenew Thu 25-Jan-18 18:13:22

I just started filling this in and came to the same issue of writing a reason that wasn't "because your question is stupid".

I'll go back to it later.

I was getting a bit ragey just reading the first page of questions. sad

okMaybeIAmATERF Thu 25-Jan-18 18:54:30

@ArcherieAnnie : it's easy to sign up for a new email address at gmail or somewhere else, and forward it to your real one but not otherwise connect it to your identity, if you want. Let me know if you need help. It's important that people not be put off filling this in.

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