“Transwomen are women”

[BertrandRussell]

I’ve tried this before-but please can someone explain the thinking behind this to me. I am naive enough to think that there must be some- is it the “male brain/female brain” thing? And where did it come from? Where did it start?

Please-no abuse from either “side”. Just statements of fact. With links to evidence if possible.

[Bluedoglead]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3122473--Transwomen-are-women

Why start another thread and not just add to the one you started only a few weeks ago?

[Fekko]

A woman who identifies as male? I get confused with the terminology. Brain as in chemistry/biology or ‘I think therefore I am’?

[BertrandRussell]

Bluedoglead-because that thread left me none the wiser and and descended rather. That’s why I’m trying again. Feel free not to contribute!

[Anlaf]

One observation: a lot of men are tweeting this in response to crowdfunded campaign on Labour party AWS.


I support women only short lists. Trans women are also women. So you want to oppress them?

Your bigotry is clear. One day, you’ll look back on shame at it. You’ll claim you didn’t know any better and that it was how you were raised.
twitter.com/PhilMillar/status/952349887647150081


Transphobia is unacceptable and has no place in the Labour Party. The crowdfunder in question is wrong, despicable and unacceptable.

All of us should be allies to Trans people. Let’s listen to, and help amplify, Trans voices.

Trans women are women.
twitter.com/GeorgeAylett/status/952337528639705089


It doesn’t matter how often you say you’re “committed” to trans people if you also deny that trans women are women.
twitter.com/Harkaway/status/952496706163224576


Everyone has a responsibility to speak out against hate crime. This is not a debate - trans women are women.
twitter.com/jcollieruk/status/952345853179678720


This disgusts me, trans women are women - if any of my followers have pledged money to help this - you know what to do... 👋
twitter.com/BenCooper86/status/952496109955502082

TERFs in @UKLabour reminding me of George Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’ - some women are more equal than others? Show your support to the trans community by signing #TransWomenAreWomen
twitter.com/harrydoyle96/status/952490714474086400

I could go on - but it's interesting that this political statement has stuck.

[Elendon]

I know, having been involved with a CLP for years, that men dislike intensely all women shortlists AWS. Those men know that transwomen are really men, but it's a victory of sorts to them that transwomen can now be on the AWS. It is basic misogyny at practice but cloaked in terms that seem all encompassing. Heterosexual men would NEVER consider having a sexual relationship with a transwomen.

[ReefAndRiz]

They do hate AWS and blame women for their lack of progression rather than themselves.

[ATeardropExplodes]

Of course they are, until it comes down to personal choice. Amirite?

[Elendon]

Also it's interesting that men, and it's mostly men in those twitter accounts, who say that this money raised should go to

refuges
food banks
trans people
homeless
poverty

As if 7 grand would solve these problems? Deluded is a word that springs to mind.

[ReefAndRiz]

Where are their GoFundMe campaigns?

[Elendon]

I think they do Reef

It's astonishing and palpable to witness it. Babies throwing the toys out of the pram springs to mind. These are men who expect everything handed to them on a plate.

[ReefAndRiz]

Where are all the campaigns for BAME, LGB and disabled members shortlist?

[BeeInMyBonnet1985]

Gender ideology costs men nothing. It doesn't impact on them politically or socially. They lose nothing by supporting gender politics, and they get to bask in the glow of projecting their credentials as enlightened, modern and liberal thinkers. How could they resist hopping on Twitter to lecture women on how they're doing feminism wrong?

[Elendon]

'I see them as real women except for relationship purposes'

Says it all really!

UGH!

[Popchyk]

I did laugh at the "I see them as women except for relationship purposes".

I don't think some straight men have quite understood it yet. You are actually supposed to fancy these women, fellas. To not fancy them is transphobic. And hateful and mean. And the wrong side of history.

[Popchyk]

Cross-posted with Elendon.

Transgender people are saying "Transwomen are women".

Straight men are saying ""Transwomen are women except for when it affects me".

[ReefAndRiz]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fu3j8SAL3g

India on CBB discussion with u

[Iggi999]

Brilliant quotes. And probably a far more effective way to get the message across rather than focusing on any erosion of women’s rights - focus on the erosion of a man’s right not to sleep with a trans woman without being a transphobe.

[ReefAndRiz]

You could have fun outing the men that won't sleep with trans women and let them and TRAs fight.

[ReefAndRiz]

Every like and retweet by a man, ask if they will have a sexual relationship with a trans woman.

[NannyOggsKnickers]

I don’t see that there are any ways to explain that tautology unless you reduce being a woman to a set of lazy gender stereotypes and ‘feelz’.

That said. I have every sympathy with people who want to perform a gender role differently to that of their sex. People should be able to perform gender in any way they like. We, as a society, should be exploring how to broaden gender roles. How to get rid of endemic, institutionalised sexism.

But, and this is an incontrovertible truth, you cannot change your sex to become the opposite sex. You cannot rewrite the genetic code that lives in every cell of your body, in the shape of your bones and the layout of your muscle mass etc.

These are things that separate makes from females. Surely these are the things that also make someone intersex too. So how does pretending that they aren’t important and don’t exist help anyone but the disphoric? How can we safely deny our biology?

[ATeardropExplodes]

But, and this is an incontrovertible truth, you cannot change your sex to become the opposite sex. You cannot rewrite the genetic code that lives in every cell of your body, in the shape of your bones and the layout of your muscle mass etc

And when you point that out, you get 'it's more than being a woman' and when you ask them to define what it is about being a woman that they identify with they tell you it will get into an 'existential' argument and 280 characters are not enough.

It is utterly baffling.

[stitchglitched]

Oh my, just read the whole conversation under Robin Green's tweet. He is absolutely destroyed!

[MsBeaujangles]

I think the people who are usually reasoned and considered in their views do not believe transwomen are the same as natal women. However, I think that they believe they have every right to be classified as women and this is what underpins their conviction in the statement.
I don’t think they are at all bothered by defining women but rather, so long as the category ‘women’ exists, transwomen should be included in it.

[DonkeySkin]

That said. I have every sympathy with people who want to perform a gender role differently to that of their sex.

See, I don't agree that trans-identified males are performing the feminine gender role, which is why I never refer to them as 'gender non-conforming'. Most are very obviously enacting a male fantasy of what womanhood is, which is all about clothes, make-up and sexual objectification. They have zero interest in appropriating the non-sexualised aspects of the feminine gender role: child care, elder care, domestic shit work, subordinating one's own needs and desires to those of others.