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The departure of dittany

(1003 Posts)
Pan Thu 15-Sep-11 21:20:20

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

lovecat Thu 15-Sep-11 21:24:24


I didn't always see eye to eye with Dittany, but she always made me think. And in light of the slew of deletions recently for v. mild 'offensive' posts, I think the refusal of MN to delete/ban the MRA trolls and their attacking posts was probably the last straw - that Sakura post by "Dittony" was just horrible.

It would be great if MN could think a little more on this one.


nethunsreject Thu 15-Sep-11 21:27:19

Yep, it's a shame.

Tbh, I am pretty scunnered of MN at the moment and spend very little time here. No loss I know, but it feels really odd atm. ANd I have no idea what MNHQ are at.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 15-Sep-11 21:29:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LurcioLovesFrankie Thu 15-Sep-11 21:29:39

Yes, definitely. I've been staggered by the derailing on some of the threads (and the way posters are allowed to post "me, me, me, it's all about me, look at meeeeeee, why are the feminists being nasty to me?" for post after post). Because it's so hard to draw up a hard-and-fast set of rules on this sort of thing because of the difficulty of distinguishing between the malicious and the ill-informed (though I think individual extreme cases could be banned, as a certain BNP member was a while ago), I think some sort of hide poster button really might help. I see the arguments that it can make the thread disjointed for newbies, but I think they'd soon get the idea if they saw an intelligent conversation and discussion taking place between the majority of posters with a few oddballs lobbing in totally irrelevant comments and getting ignored.

edd1337 Thu 15-Sep-11 21:35:45

its never nice to be bullied away from something you like. Surely this is admitting defeat though. Did Dworkin or Greer ever quit? No, they kept fighting

PacificDogwood Thu 15-Sep-11 21:36:20

I have missed all the upset, but am shocked and saddend that dittany has left. Has she, really??
I am a serial luker on this board and as others have said, have not always agreed with dittany but she certainly made me think and more than one, I eventually came round to her way of thinking.
There has been some dreadfull provocative, derailing, offensive, hurtful trolling going on and I agree, MNHQ should look at their Talk guidelines to address this.
I am not sure how though: MN is a public forum, anybody can post anything they want (as long as not offensive/personal/yadda yadda) and how would one differentiate between a misguided genuine poster and a troll?

Anyway, I am keen to support Pan's initiative on this.

DontCallMeFrothyDragon Thu 15-Sep-11 21:53:15

Agree wholeheartedly with Pan.

We should not see long term, respected members feeling driven away by trolls and personal attacks. Surely this should be an eye opener to MNHQ. It still shouldn't have got this far, though. sad

PrincessFiorimonde Thu 15-Sep-11 22:01:09

I agree with you that the talk guidelines should be reviewed, while acknowledging the point about the difficulty in drawing up hard-and-fast rules.

I'm another person - mostly a lurker here - who has found Dittany's contributions (not just in this section) thought-provoking. She will be missed.

brokendreams Thu 15-Sep-11 22:02:49

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

SybilBeddows Thu 15-Sep-11 22:04:33

I agree with Pan. Good post.

UrsulaWoleffay Thu 15-Sep-11 22:04:41

Wonderful post, Pan.

flippinada Thu 15-Sep-11 22:04:52

I would like to post my wholehearted support.

Thank you for posting this thread Pan.

MNHQ really need to get their act in gear wrt these trolls.

Pan Thu 15-Sep-11 22:08:44

I should say that this isn't purely about dittany,a nd I am sure she wouldn't want it that way, if I know her at all.

It's rather how a really vibrant 'women only/predominately women' space is being downgraded by the demands of people who really just don't want to know and are satisfied when progress is halted.

forkful Thu 15-Sep-11 22:09:15

Agree that something needs to be done.

I think that MNHQ can do something about this.

I am thinking about the approach that they take to Madeline McCann threads which admittedly can get a bit out of hand but basically it looked like MNHQ were scared they would get their -asses sued took a cautious approach and deleted a lot of those debates as they saw fit (i.e. without reference to a specific policy).

IIRC Justine came on the thread and said MN is here to help make parents lives easier or some such.

Constant invasions here are obvious (especially to longstanding/informed posters) - so so different to some of the debates we have here (thinking about Larry wink - we had some ding dongs but he posted all over MN and was not here specifically on a wind on - the debtates with him drew out interesting points etc)).

I think that new posters posting specifically or mainly in the Feminist section should be on some form of "probation".

MNHQ can always just deactivate posters accounts if they do not believe they are here for genuine purposes.

Feminist blogs and forums all over the www have to adopt these policies.

youmustbeyolking Thu 15-Sep-11 22:09:25

Agreed. Good post Pan.

flippinada Thu 15-Sep-11 22:09:41

Hear hear brokendreams

Time was you could post in here (Feminism I mean) and know that you had a 'safe' space to discuss issues like DV, rape, sexual harrassment and get a supportive response. Not any more though.

Posters like Dittany were a big part of that.

hocuspontas Thu 15-Sep-11 22:11:44

Yes, absolutely.

flippinada Thu 15-Sep-11 22:12:19

Of course there are still loads of great posters on here. That came out wrong!

flippinada Thu 15-Sep-11 22:13:58

Not making much sense here. Bit tired.

But basically, excellent thread and thanks to Pan for starting it.

SybilBeddows Thu 15-Sep-11 22:15:41

'Time was you could post in here (Feminism I mean) and know that you had a 'safe' space to discuss issues like DV, rape, sexual harrassment and get a supportive response. Not any more though.'

yes, that is exactly the point.

AnyFucker Thu 15-Sep-11 22:16:47

Has Dittany gone for good this time...not just a holiday ?

I missed it, if that is the case

was it MRA trolls this time ?

I dunno, that is not what I have witnessed this week

Dittany is a force of nature, that is for sure

we need Forces Of don't have to stand alongside them, you don't have to agree with them, you can just acknowledge them as different to yourself

I get it when people with such uncompromising views are seen as difficult to engage with

I think not everyone has been fair in engaging, for various reasons

who could blame her for thinking it just isn't worth it ?

meditrina Thu 15-Sep-11 22:17:46

This thread in Site Issues might interest posters here - it covers similar ground.

joaninha Thu 15-Sep-11 22:18:18

Well I hope Dittany comes back soon. She is genuine and says what she means, unlike the trolls who just come on to stir up trouble. Looks like they've won for the time being.

forkful Thu 15-Sep-11 22:18:36

AF - here sad

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