The departure of dittany

[Pan]

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

Porn used to get discussed on here loads, just not in the fem section because there wasn't one. And we all pretty much had to just put up with people disagreeing with us.

Actually, if you're looking for solutions, that's one radical suggestion - get rid of the section. MN could go back to being a place where feminist attitudes pervaded the board, and weren't hived off into a special section. And MRA targetting would be much less easy. (I would be sad to see it go myself, but then I find it easy to ignore trolls.)

Sorry, AF.

And slhilly... this is true...

and there would be a wavy protuberance from the forehead...

SM - well it IS possible to recognise trolls in the FS - and in a largely female chamber it is REALLY easy to do. But I don;t think the will is there from MNHQ to actually do it. It's a sort of skill-set they have but wish to keep in a drawer.

edd, I am not the one trying to make it about me

on virtually every single Feminist thread

That vacuum is supported by a brass neck though

If you want a safe board I am afraid you are going tonhave to start your own site where you only let known and trusted people post. Anything that is open to the public will attract a proportion of mad and unpleasant people. I really don't understand what can be done to stop that, or even why it is needed. If someone is trolling, don't engage.

I have no idea why dittany's left but I do knownthat in four years on mumsnet she was the only poster who i found aggressive, bullying and deliberately intimidating. She appeared to have no capacity to entertain a view different to her own. I am glad she has gone, if that really is the case.

good. Nor am I :)

dont agree.people give and take on fem topics
im presuming dittanty dished out too?so no demonising posts/ers as trolls against a particular topic is conspitarial and not helpful

We could start a list of how to recognise trolls in the feminist section.

Damn, I'd kill for a chocolate cake right now. :(

LOL at helpful

The diff I allude to is simply that we value the store of knowledge and wisdom dittany brings and aibu does not benefit similarly because inherently there is no such store to draw on. So dittany leaving impoverishes the debate in a way that wd not be true for an aibu regular, nut wd ne true for anSN regular. I too wd not want different rules or limits on free speech, but I wd like more direct consequences a la slashdot moderation

HerB - yes. edd is a fine example. I did say a while ago "if it posts like a troll, and smells like a troll..."

Anyone got any goats?

I have a few spoons...

lol,a troll list.yes put me on that given ive been nominated plenty times.
problemo with fem topic is too many posters there too quick to squack troll too quickly.its became the default position on fem topics to dismiss a post with troll/apologist

Pan I support this thread - I am a mere lurker in the FS, (and a recent namechanger :) ) but I always liked dittany's posts. It is perfectly obvious that there is some subtle and some not-so-subtle trolling and derailment going on. I have read a couple of threads on here today where it sticks out like a sore thumb - for the first time on MN I have wanted a 'hide poster' function.

In general, I like the 'unmoderated' feel to MN, but there are certain, more sensitive topics that maybe need a bit more intervention from MNHQ.

Really need gooats, AF. They deal with trolls most effectively

What dittany dished out was an uncompromising willingness to call out antifeminism whenever it cropped up. She never minced her words but she always attacked the argument, not the person. That was helpful to many of us, including some of us on the receiving end, as I was at least a couple f times. It confronted my sloppy thinking and sharpened my arguments, even when in continued to disagree with her

I don't really post much on MN anymore (see below*), I joined in 05 and name changed a few times, but I did enjoy dittany's input.

I found the devil's advocate / soapbox style (trolling / flaming / sockpuppeting... who knows) of some posters on MN too much like the wankerish posturings of male posters on other boards tbh. *Too tedious really.

MN aint wot she used to be IMVHO.

Enjoy your RL dittany.

I would rather dittany' had called me a troll than a supporter of rape which she seemed to rather enjoy doing.

Did it ever occur to you that some of the 'trolls' might just be people like me who found it ironic to say the least to be treated in such an aggressive and bullying way by someone who purported to be a feminist?

I had never thought it to be a central core of feminism that you chased people around threads to try to intimidate them into shutting up.

She didn't shut me up because I treated her as I would any poster spouting off in unpleasant and unhelpful ways. I turned my laptop off and did something else. Then came back and enjoyed some more debate.

I really don't see the major issue. Trolls are the inevitable consequence of freedom of speech and the Internet.

SM - okay. You aren't a troll, but if you wish to self-identify as such I can't stop you in your ambition.

Kouk - yes, many of us see the clear ones - even as occasional posters. As a bloke as well, I see a few fairly early on. But nothing is done. Really not sure why.

It isn't a priority for MN - and MNHQ DO hide behind their 'guidelines', which, lets face it, are shown to be pretty pitiful in practice.

I apologise for not reading the whole thread before posting (I should be in bed already!), but I wanted to say that I agree with you, pan.

I am mostly a lurker, but I have found a lot of the FS threads recently have been spoilt by what feels like deliberate derailing. I quite often don't read threads in real time and find that by the time I get to read them, there are a lot of carefully worded vitriol and/or 'me me me' posts, followed by posts by regular FS posters saying 'Message deleted by MN'. It is frustrating because it ruins the debate and discussion and means that the original topic/ discussion gets lost.

I would prefer that posts weren't deleted, as it often distorts the perception of how the discussion is going. I know that several of the regulars on the FS are no nonsense and straight talking, but the deleted posts make it look as though they have actually been nasty. I suspect, in a lot of cases, thy aren't actually nearly as nasty as the comment that they are responding to, which haven't been deleted because AF et al don't go crying to MNHQ at the slightest disagreement.

I am sad that Dittany has gone, I have learnt a lot from the FS section and she had some very interesting points of view.

I promise I will read the thread fully in the morning