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5:2 Thread number 81: Warning - "Big Choc will come smacking if you start snacking! "

(972 Posts)
BigChocFrenzy Thu 04-Oct-18 23:45:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting


16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.


. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

- WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
- HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
- SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
- EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

- FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice.
e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

- BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

- NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

- Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

- CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP’s posts: |
BigChocFrenzy Thu 04-Oct-18 23:51:14

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 81 ! grin

We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us
Post whenever you need advice or support, or just to tell us how you are doing

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP’s posts: |
HLBug Fri 05-Oct-18 07:30:37

Morning all! Checking in to the new shiny thread - thanks BCF!

I haven't been fasting this week as I'm still giving my tummy a rest after last week. Had a good weekend away though - used a lot of tricks from my arsenal (only one meal a day, no snacking etc etc) and weighed in on Tuesday morning at 8st 10lb. I may have gained this week due to no fasting but it shouldn't be too bad.

Happy Friday everyone and good luck to those fasting today or over the weekend.

Iamblossom Fri 05-Oct-18 07:36:09

Are we actually twins HLBug? My tum still not right, my tea left the building at about 5am this morning, I mean who poos then???? Was 8 11 yesterday

BCF apart from dog walks no exercise this week shall I attempt this morning?

quackingduck222 Fri 05-Oct-18 08:16:14

Thanks for the new thread BCF we are going through them so quick.

43 - I hope you nailed your FD.

Snail - I hope your FD also went well.

Boys - Well done on your B2B you’ve done fantastic. Remember we are so critical of ourself it’s probably just a awful angle. You’ve done so well.

Cheddar - Hope your FD also went well, did your omlette fill you up? You can’t beat a big omlette on a FD

Lara - Yep used to get these comments quite often. I no longer tell people as I’ve had quite a bit of negativity. Actually more negative than positive comments. I ignore it but I’ve found people do actually now ask because they can see whatever I’m doing is working as I’ve been maintaining for almost 8 months. When they ask I do tell them and they seem interested now and want to know my secret.

StirCrazy- I’ve saved your post as that sounds like a lovely dish that I’d love to make, Makes a change from a omlette and I’ve always got those staples in so it will make my shopping go further. Thanks

Snail - I totally agree with your post, it’s a heated topic but I think it’s down to how you word it. When I say “fasting” or “intermittent fasting” it seems to bring out the really negative comments. The worst being a friend actually spoke to my mum and said she thought I had a eating disorder as I was starving myself.
but 5:2 doesn’t I’ve found people then simply say “I don’t understand how you can eat what you want for 5 days and loose weight” I think it’s down to the wording you use.

Well done Bug, sounds like you’ve had a good week despite not fasting. How are you feeling now?

Blossom - Not you aswell, hope your run recovers quickly. As long as you don’t overdo it and feel upto it I can’t see a issue with resumuming exercise I think it’s the fasting you need to mind with a dodge tum.

Good solid FD here yesterday, Wednesday went a little off track but all sorted now.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 05-Oct-18 09:14:23

thanks for the new thread bcf

well done on your fd quacking
Hope your tum is better soon iam

Day 2 of b2b and got a super busy day in which i might not actually stop until 9pm tonight, so hoping that I'll manage it okay! Got friends over tomorrow night for a Mexican feast, arriba!!! wine wine looking forward to a couple of glasses then smile

Boysmomma Fri 05-Oct-18 10:08:45

Thanks @big! Love the new thread grin

Finished B2B yesterday, 630. Happy with that!

@lam @bug I hope you feel better soon, a dodgy tum is awful!

@quacking, it is an awful angle but that doesn't excuse what I saw unfortunately. I'm using it as a stepping stone to keep me on track, fingers crossed it works!

@43 good luck today! and to all the Friday fasters

BigChocFrenzy Fri 05-Oct-18 11:47:27

Blossom Until your tum is better, I suggest you just stick to dog walks, no more exercise.
Once all symptoms have disappeared, then weight at leaast 5 days before fasting.

bug That's good you're giving your tum a rest, too.

I hope all dodgy tums soon recover

Boys Don't worry about that photo, because you have decided you are going to change your body with 5:2 smile
That's just the old bod, so stay focused and the new one will gradually appear.

Well done on your FD, duck
I agree, best just to say 5:2 if someone is nosy enough to ask

Good luck, 43
I'm fasting today too
Anyone else apart from us ? 🐒

OP’s posts: |
BigChocFrenzy Fri 05-Oct-18 11:49:35

Sorry typo, Blossom Once all symptoms have disappeared, wait at least 5 days before fasting.

OP’s posts: |
Stircrazyschoolmum Fri 05-Oct-18 12:51:06

Happy Friday everyone!

I’m not fasting today so I just had a nutritionally delinquent lunch of 2 crumpets with liberal marg and marmite along with a GU zillionaire cheesecake! (No breakfast so not as bad as it sounds) It tasted all the better as I ate it in a kid free room in sunshiny peace. I love 5:2!

Booze free October is doing it for me, as I hit 61.8 this morning (yay!) it’s the lightest I’ve been in 4 years! I don’t think I could be doing it without these threads though.. THANK YOU!

quacking glad you liked it.. in hindsight I should’ve just sent you the link but I thought you’d appreciate the personal touch! Just remember to use a non stick pan with a non meltable handle.

43 good luck with your b2b, it will be worth it for your feast tomorrow. I LOVE Mexican!

BCF enjoy your fast today too and thank you for the new thread, it’s funny how little you miss snacking once you stop doing it!

lara well done on your first weeks fasting. You might find it useful to MFP your weekend as it will throw up any calorie bombs. (Hmmm like GU puddings..)

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 05-Oct-18 13:24:09

well done on your SV stir and your lunch sounds interesting smile but delicious, all the better for eating it in peace!!!

High five bcf.....what delights have you planned for today then? I've just had a subway chicken salad (convenient as I'm in the office) and i'm freezing cold so thinking a nice low cal soup with some extra protein (chicken or turkey) for dinner. I might treat myself to something from M&S on the way home...

snailhunter Fri 05-Oct-18 13:38:54

Checking in! Have just had a lovely NFD lunch of avocado, fried egg, mixed leaves and homemade sourdough bread. I made my own sourdough starter over the summer holidays and the bread is so delicious.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 05-Oct-18 14:24:01

mmm snail that sounds amazing but fatal for me I wouldn't be able to stop eating it!!!

BigChocFrenzy Fri 05-Oct-18 15:18:31

< evils at snail on my FD ! grin >

Hi 43 < waves > Soup sounds a good antidote to a freezing office.

I had a fasted morning gym class and an Optifast leek soup for lunch
Off now for another walk along the sunny Rhine (22C),
then supper will be at my fav Rhine cafe - "Hessen Handkäse mit Musik" accompanied by a big mixed salad with a boiled egg yolk and crusty rye bread.

OP’s posts: |
Borris Fri 05-Oct-18 15:34:05

Just checking into the new thread. About to go for my first run in a long time. I feel like I’ve got the eating under control (ish) so time to overhaul the exercise now grin

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 05-Oct-18 16:37:28

Is "Hessen Handkäse mit that weird farting cheese that you mentioned on a previous thread bcf ?

Well done borris good luck on your run

BigChocFrenzy Fri 05-Oct-18 16:43:42

43 The alleged farting is supposed to come with the onions < indignant about the slur on a fav dish wink>
The cheese itself is just high protein, low fat
The "Hessen" part is a regional variation, meaning it comes with slices of apple too

That's excellent news about the eating Borris
For cross-training between running days, why not try a blast of HIIT, e.g. the free Shred 1 online

OP’s posts: |
Ta1kinpeace Fri 05-Oct-18 16:49:06

Blimey another thread!
Well I'm 3 lb down since I got back from my holiday.
Another seven to go to get to "happy weight"
Not having to fit meals round children any more has made my diet more varied again (they are both at Uni now)
and a sunny afternoon in the garden burned some bonus calories!

Summer15coming Fri 05-Oct-18 18:00:01

Hi everyone. I had planned to do a FD today, but my plans have gone a little awry due to spending the last couple of days hanging around in hospital with my daughter. I always find eating in there completely disruptive (even before I did 5:2) as I have no control of what is available plus all the hanging around doing nothing makes me bored and hungry!!

FD tomorrow!!!

Summer15coming Fri 05-Oct-18 18:01:55

Well done, Stir and Ta1k. Are you feeling better now, Bug?

Flickstar Fri 05-Oct-18 18:39:51

Hello! I have been a long time lurker and had really good success with 5:2 after I had my second child. My third is now 10 months old and I have not managed to shift all the baby weigh so it’s time for me to dive back into 5:2 and hold my self accountable by actually joining the thread rather than lurking grin I have at least 1.5 stone to lose, ideally 2.... hope everyone is having a lovely Friday and good luck to any weekend fasters!

BigChocFrenzy Fri 05-Oct-18 20:00:06

Summer I hope all is ok now with your DD thanks
hospital food is the most unhealthy ever GRRR - so your FD tomorrow is a good plan

Well done on your SV, TiP

Welcome, Flick smile and good luck
You sound an experienced faster, so you should soon get in the 5:2 swing again
Many of us find that posting here helps us stick to our WOL

OP’s posts: |
Iamblossom Fri 05-Oct-18 20:24:23

Evening all. Went to doctors this morning and actually cried when she did an abdominal exam, very tender tummy. She took loads of blood to do all the tests for organ functions but am sure it's just a viral bug and will go soon.

Did a long dog walk today but am not even in the mood for gym, swimming or running so I know I'm not right.

Happily I have a girly champneys spa day tomorrow, what good timing!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck Fri 05-Oct-18 21:27:16

Well done on your sv tip
Welcome flick and good luck with it.
flowers for you summer hope all okay with dd

Ouch iam fingers crossed you are back to health soon, sounds awful.

Just sat down with a cuppa, day 2 of b2b finished on 642 smile hope everyone else has had a good fd or nfd.... I'm so looking forward to tomorrow once I've cooked it all though happy weekend all grin

MrJollyLivesNextDoor Fri 05-Oct-18 22:55:52

Checking in - hello you lovely lot! Thanks BCF for new thread

Hope dodgy tums sort themselves out soon...I have only just recovered 3 weeks later! I'm going to see how the weekend goes and might do a FD towards middle/end of next week

Am 11st10
Was 12st12 when I joined so I'm hoping to capitalise on the weight lost on the loo by being careful now, mindful of calories, no snacking or booze etc
My appetite is just about returning although there's still some foodstuffs that I can't bear the thought of.

Good luck to any weekend fasters!

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