Page 2 | No Deal supporters? Can you see any downsides? If so, why are these outweighed by the upsides.

(497 Posts)
bellinisurge Wed 03-Jul-19 20:14:24

Genuine question. I was prepared to accept WA but that was apparently not sufficient. So, why is No Deal better?

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1tisILeClerc Thu 04-Jul-19 08:51:22

billysboy
The EU have said consistently since December that the WA document is closed, they will not and do not need to reopen it.

They have made and published their 'emergency plan' if the UK crashes out and are essentially waiting for it to happen.

The options for the UK to revoke, sign the WA and write a new PD, or crash out are still on the table. Unless the UK PM asks for another extension, the 'no deal' option happens on 31 October.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Jul-19 08:55:28

@billysboy , agreeing to differ is no longer an option. If you give approval to No Deal (tacit or otherwise) what follows is on you.
Write to your MP and say that whatever happens you do not accept No Deal.
If you don't, they will assume you are OK with it.
And takes steps at home slowly and proportionately to have a reasonable buffer of food etc so that you aren't one of the people panicking and being ridiculous at the shops. (reasonable being what you can afford, have space for and be bothered doing ).

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LifeContinues Thu 04-Jul-19 09:02:16

The UK leaving is not an existential threat to the EU. A disappointment yes, a significant bump in the finances, yes but not ultimately damaging to that extent

I think EU are more worried about the possibility of EU breaking up completely if other members begin to leave.

The UK however, flouncing about and being generally disagreeable are rapidly trashing 'good deals' with anybody

Agree that how Brexit has been handled must look bad to other Countries.

The EU is factoring out long term trade with the UK and as the UK government is acting so erratically

If EU have had any sense since 2016 they will have made some plans for a no deal.

suggesting it might refuse to pay the 'exit bill' will raise significant concerns

Even if there is a Legal loophole or technicality that allows UK to not pay the exit bill I would not pursue it as that would be a black mark in terms of trust.

1tisILeClerc Thu 04-Jul-19 09:08:25

{If EU have had any sense since 2016 they will have made some plans for a no deal.}

The German equivalent of the CBI TOLD German manufacturers to diversify away from the UK about 2 years ago.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Jul-19 09:08:36

"I think EU are more worried about the possibility of EU breaking up completely if other members begin to leave."
Even right wing nutters like Le Pen are pro EU. Haven't seen any of them sacrificing Ireland over this. Dream on.

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HappydaysArehere Thu 04-Jul-19 09:13:12

The Tory party think it will be better for them if they leave no matter what the consequences.
This shows just how deranged this whole situation has become. ( Johnson’s popularity is another indication of this sickness).
The reality is that we are heading for untold damage to our economy and apparently to give the voters another chance to review the situation would be undemocratic.
The end result will be the finish of the Tory party as this country once more becomes the “sick man of Europe”.

TheElementsSong Thu 04-Jul-19 09:13:43

I think EU are more worried about the possibility of EU breaking up completely if other members begin to leave.

Oh yes, any minute now grin

1tisILeClerc Thu 04-Jul-19 09:20:26

TheElementsSong
Brilliant!

It is all very well having the idea of leaving the EU, but all the other members have asked the crucial question of 'where do we want to go, if not in the EU'?

The UK has decided to leave and put leaving in motion but has not pointed their compass towards a new part of the planet.

Songsofexperience Thu 04-Jul-19 09:55:23

It has... downwards 🙁

LifeContinues Thu 04-Jul-19 10:40:07

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3628698-no-deal-supporters-can-you-see-any-downsides-if-so-why-are-these-outweighed-by-the-upsides?pg=2#

timeforakinderworld Thu 04-Jul-19 10:50:54

Write to your MP and say that whatever happens you do not accept No Deal.

This is so important. My MP has said she hears a lot more from No Deal constituents who are very vocal. If we can't have another vote we need to make it clear that No Deal is not acceptable.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Jul-19 10:51:24

Sorry @LifeContinues , I think @TheElementsSong cartoon is more accurate.

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LifeContinues Thu 04-Jul-19 11:07:14

Sorry *@LifeContinues , I think @TheElementsSong cartoon is more accurate*

You are entitled to think what you wish. Cartoons are for amusement only. They can never be used to prove anything. Some good ones around though. For CloseHeart benefit as they kept referring to blame
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3628698-no-deal-supporters-can-you-see-any-downsides-if-so-why-are-these-outweighed-by-the-upsides?pg=2#

HollowTalk Thu 04-Jul-19 11:15:33

The referendum wasn't democratic. It wasn't giving an informed choice. And then it was compounded by Theresa May invoking Article 50 before anyone worked out what leaving would mean, which meant the clock was ticking and everyone was panicking. A decision to leave could mean all manner of things - to give a binary choice always meant there would be problems.

The PM of New Zealand was on Woman's Hour a while ago saying there should have been an initial referendum "Are you interested in leaving the EU?" and then if the majority said yes, they should have spent years working out the best solution. Then there should've been another referendum: "This is what would happen if we left. Do you want to leave now?" I agree with her.

LifeContinues Thu 04-Jul-19 11:25:24

The referendum wasn't democratic

Yes it was. Government sanctioned it and selected the question to be asked.

It wasn't giving an informed choice

Yes it was as Government spent 9 Million of Tax Payers money sending information leaflet to all households saying why UK should remain in the EU.

And then it was compounded by Theresa May invoking Article 50 before anyone worked out what leaving would mean, which meant the clock was ticking and everyone was panicking

Government issue. Not the fault of the Voters.

A decision to leave could mean all manner of things - to give a binary choice always meant there would be problems

Unlimited options for leave that would have been impossible to list on a single sheet ballot paper.

The PM of New Zealand was on Woman's Hour a while ago saying there should have been an initial referendum "Are you interested in leaving the EU?" and then if the majority said yes, they should have spent years working out the best solution. Then there should've been another referendum: "This is what would happen if we left. Do you want to leave now?" I agree with her

Cameron the PM at the time the referendum was called was obviously confident that the vote would be to remain by a landslide and hence did not make any preparations.

Timeforachangeof Thu 04-Jul-19 11:28:36

The hypocrisy of some posters on here is amazing. Telling people if you’re not from this country keep your nose out, while conveniently forgetting/ignoring the ‘threats’ made by Obama and more recently (for those of you with bad memories) Nancy Pelosi on what would happen if we dared leave the EU. Perhaps you’d like to pass on this advice to them, or anyone else not ‘living in this country’.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Jul-19 11:36:16

Nancy Pelosi was making a point as Speaker of the House through which trade deals must pass. Obama was making a statement as President. Which Trump has done - to tell us what a beautiful deal we will have with the US. What with him being notorious for making deals that favour people other than the US.
You can ignore them or take them seriously. If a foreigner wants to tell me that No Deal is brilliant I will naturally wonder what is in it for them. And tell them to mind their own business. If they are Speaker Pelosi or President Trump, I will listen to them but their opinion doesn't make much difference to me.

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1tisILeClerc Thu 04-Jul-19 11:36:19

Timeforachangeof
They were not issuing 'threats', just pointing out what their country's position would be if the UK leaves the EU.
You are taking the position that the UK is something important and that anyone else has to do what the UK says, this is not true, as you will find out when the UK leaves.

As usual, leavers on here are saying what they don't want, but not providing any clue as to how they might get anything that they would like. So far everything from Leavers is negative and denying other people things that they have fought for.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Jul-19 11:38:36

@Timeforachangeof Pelosi was not telling us what would happen if we dared to leave the EU, she was telling us the likely outcome if we leave in such a way that messes with GFA. Accepting WA would mean we would leave without messing with GFA. If the ERG didn't back it, whose fault is that?

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Peregrina Thu 04-Jul-19 12:12:59

Notice that the cartoon LifeContinues chooses to post shows England breaking off. Now many Scots and N Irish wish that was the case.

LifeContinues Thu 04-Jul-19 15:45:32

Notice that the cartoon LifeContinues chooses to post shows England breaking off. Now many Scots and N Irish wish that was the case

No they don’t as both Scots and NI know that after Brexit they will have to gain independence before they can apply to the EU for membership assuming they want to be in the EU.

Is it a certainty that EU will accept their applications? When under the UK umbrella they were part of a Union that contributed £50 million per day gross to the EU which made them an attractive member that EU wanted.

Scotland population is about 5 million and NI about 2 million. So combined population is less than that of Bulgaria. Can 7 million match the £50 Million per day paid to EU gross that was possible when they were part of the UK whose population was 67 million? I think not otherwise they could have voted for independence from the UK decades ago.

So if they can’t offer EU a massive contribution in monetary benefits what else can they offer? Cheap labour like the Eastern European countries? Would have thought they would not want to be forced into such a position. Hence the reason more Scots voted to remain under the UK umbrella in the 2014 referendum than voted to remain in EU in the 2016 referendum.

1tisILeClerc Thu 04-Jul-19 16:01:57

LifeContinues

Still failing to understand the EU. It is not just about money. As some are happy to gloat about, 18 of the EU members are net importers' of cash.
By your petty argument, Germany would be a LOT better off saying 'stuff you' to the rest of Europe, but they are grown up enough to understand the benefits of a larger union, even though it costs them a lot.

LifeContinues Thu 04-Jul-19 16:17:16

Still failing to understand the EU. It is not just about money

Exactly that’s why some who voted leave did so on intangible benefits. Freedom of choice to make your own laws trade with others without the need to seek Brussels approval.

What do Germany gain by throwing money away to be part of a larger union? On your logic why is there not a world union?

MeganBacon Thu 04-Jul-19 16:38:48

Germany gains an artificially low fx rate so their exports are supported, but they pay by being net contributor.

bellinisurge Thu 04-Jul-19 16:42:09

Still waiting for someone to explain why all the negatives of No Deal are worth it compared to WA.

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