Advice please . Son left out of team!

[georgia73]

I,ve changed my name for this as I think one of my ds friends mums comes here.

Phewww..don't know were to start. I could really do with some avice and encouragement..I've had a really awful night , tossed and turned, I haven;t eaten since midday yesterday..I can't believe how strongly this has affected me.

Basically, my ds is 13 and in yr8. He is in a private school...He was awarded a scholarship after coming top in the entrence exam out of 250 kids sitting it. He scored in the top 2% nationally in his CATS and his main subject is maths.
I hope this doesn't sound like bragging cos its really not. He is awful at French, Is also underachiving in a a lot of subjects..as he is quite lazy and dis organized.
Anyway the one subject he never underachieves in is Maths..He is top of the yr in every single test he has been given. He doesn't even have to revise..it just comes natrually.
He is also the only pupil in his yr to get a gold in the maths challenge last yr.

Anyway it is the team maths challenge on Monday...schools throughout the country are meeting at universities to take part.
each school makes a team...2 from yr 8 and 2 from yr 9.
I knew about this a while ago as i looked it up on the site... Ds has been looking forward to it. we obviosly assumed he would be in it.
I think you can see were this is going.
Yesterday we found out another boy and girl from his yr have been picked.#
Ds is devestated...and so am I. Neither of these 2 have ever beaten ds in an maths evam....He always scores between 96 and 99%.
HE was the only one to get gold last yr!!!!

I read a thread on here a while ago about piffles son and this is similar...He is saying to me...Why should I bother any more?
Iam so angry...this is the subject he is passionate about and this teacher has ruined it for him.
I called the school and spoke to head of maths.
She told me it was the set 1 s teachers job to jive two names for the challenge and she would question her today aboyt her reasons.

Pheww can't post anymore right now...will post more later. Thanks for listening.

[georgia73]

Just to add.... When I called the school...I told the head of maths that unless my son was in that team challenge on monday...We would be withdrawing him from the school. I feel that strongly about it. I fully expect them not to put him in as the letters have already gone out to the other 2 pupils parents. But I just had to say it.
Whats also left a bad tast is that the girl picked is the daughter of a parent who is VERY active in the school...PTA chair...the lot. She knows the teachers well..and is extremely ambitious for her girl. This girl is not 2nd in the yr so I have no idea why she was chosen.

[tigermoth]

oh, that sounds really unfair on your son, as you say maths is his subject and he scores so highly in it. It's not as if he's top in everything else either, so this would have been his chance to shine.

Perhaps the school felt the maths challenge wasn't challenging enough for him - he would have walked it too effortlessly. Do you think the school could have picked children who are not quite so gifted, feeling that taking part in the challenge would have benefitted them more than your son? Not nice for your son and if this is the thinking, they should have talked to you and him first, rather then letting you find out like this.

Hope it's not just a case of favourtism regarding the girl - that stinks.

[Tanzie]

I am v and for your son too.

Agree with Tigermoth's sentiments as well. Let us know what happens. I am not sure I would have gone so far as to threaten to withdraw him, but that should make them think about their actions. Would you actually do so if you don't get a reasonable explanation?

[SleepyJess]

I am normally all for giving other, less obvious-choice kids a chance... but in these particular circumstances and with your son in particular (given his exceptional ability) then it would seem clear that he should be on the team.

Have to say (just from what you've told us) that I'm not sure I would have threatened to withdraw him from the school.. as this seems a huge reaction to what, ultimately, is a quiz. I understand the effect it might have on DS (re "why should I try anymore?") which is really frustrating and can't say I blame him for feeling that way at least initially.. but kids have to learn that sometimes these things happen, crushing disappointments have to be dealt with and moved on from.

Please let us know the teacher's explanation. Hope this can be worked out without DS being removed from a school that otherwise seems to be providing your son with the education he needs. (It's possilble that he would not be challenged enough re maths at most other schools but I imagine there would be other options for you to explore.)

SJ x

[Philly]

I can so sympathise.My son is not as academically talented but is a good average but the one thing he loves and is good at is drama.He stated in yr 7 at the Senior dept of a selective local independent school in Sept where he had attended the junior school so thye have knowmn him a long while and that he lacks confidence etc.
In October they held auditions for the lower school play,he worked really hard on a piece and was really fired up for this but when he got there had wasn't allowed to do it ,fair enough everybody had to do the same little reading from a book but surely they could see how keen he is.Anyway to cut a long story short he didn't get a part and most of the other people in his class who auditioned did.That day he came home and since then school (yes since that very day) school has just been a nightmare.He wanted to give up his drama lessons but he has a fantastic teacher who boosted him up and 4 weeks later he got a distinction in his grade 3 acting.

I was extra mad because most of the children who got the parts were already in the choir ,the orchestra or a sports team or in one case all of the above,I know parts have to go on merit but in year 7 isn't it important that all children have something to participate in .Surely it would not be rocket science for the school to keep a spreadsheet for year7 where they could keep track of what each child has been selected to do and could say well this child already has 3 things this one has nothing yet so we will give it to him.I can't help feeling that there are lots of opportuneties for some and none for others
He actually said to me the other day when I suggested trying for something that there was no point because everything he wanted to do he got rejected for
I think part of the problem is that he is in a very big year of 110,school usually only has 70 -80 and they just haven't adjusted,60 children auditioned for the 15 parts in the play!!
I am also v.angry about this because it has completely knocked him for 6 and they wouldn't say to a promising musician they couldn't be in the Orchestra would they,don't get me wrong he is not the next Kenneth Branagh but he is keen and he is not muscical or sporty and I can't see why they couldn't give him an opportunety to shine.
We are going to see the Head of lower school next week.I think you have to be careful about making threats you won't honour but what i have learnt,certainly at our school,is that he who shouts the loudest gets noticed! !

[Twiglett]

I can totally understand your sentiments here

but I have to say quite strongly that I disagree with withdrawing him from the school .. what will that teach him? that when things don't go the way you want them to you run away ... c'mon you know better than that .. its just your emotions talking .. you need, IMHO, to think it through a bit more and talk it through a lot more

looking at it as harshly as is possible to (and this isn't what I think btw) maybe your DS wasn't chosen because he is exceptionally fabulous at maths but puts no effort into other subjects .. maybe its the lack of effort and drive and the fact he relies on natural ability that has left him out of it

[RachD]

I understand that you are more than cross.
What have the school said ?
You threatened to withdraw him, in the heat of the moment.
Are you still sure that this is for the best ?
You must be unhappy with other areas , to threaten to withdraw him.
Don't do anything rash.

[tigermoth]

agree that the maths quiz alone may not be a strong enough reason to withdraw him from the school. However, if you really feel the school shows unfair favourtism in many other instances (and with other puplis, not just your son) then yes, I think you are doing the right thing in considering withdrawing him.

[Freckle]

I do hope you get a reasonable explanation as destroying a child's interest in school at this stage is nothing short of criminal. Presumably, if this is an inter-school challenge, they would be looking to put their best pupils in the team. So, if they are using some other criteria, they should make that clear and indicate why places are not being awarded on merit alone.

[georgia73]

Thanks so much everyone! Its good to vent
Developments...what do you make of this?
The head of maths just rang me...she said they chose who goes based on how they performed in a team. They took all set 1 in to the hall last week and split them into 7 teams. 4 in each team.
She told me they put them mixed ability. I said this makes sense because son told me he carried his team.
Anyway....ds team came 2nd out of 7. the boy they chose team came 5th and the girl came 6th.
Teacher told me that didn't think ds was a team player because he worked a lot of the questions himself.
I told her he is a team player ...he is in rugby team ...football team etc.
Anyway so despite that ds came 2nd in this practise ...despite that he comes top in every maths exam...despite that he is the only pupil to get a gold last yr...they chose the other two because they work better in a team?? even though their teams came 5th and 6th.

Does this sound right to anyone?
Anway long story short..... she then told me that the girl has just informed them she cannont go on Monday..and they want son to go instead.
But she stressed to me that ds is only going because this girl has pulled out.
What do you all make of that?

[SoupDragon]

Well, if he worked a lot of the questions himself and tells you he carried his team, then he's not really a team player as far as something like this goes. His team didn't come 2nd, he did (although my members of the team who came first weren't chosen I'm not sure. Sport is different.

[Philly]

Sounds fishy to me but probably best to accept with good grace but make sure that they know that although you are being co operative because of your son you are still less than satisfied with the way the matter has been handled.

The thing is that these things leave a nasty taste I alays think but the most important thing is that your son is happy with the outcome.If they win the cpmpetition the School will take the credit then(!!) nad hopefully your ds will be able to bask in the sunshine.

As i just posted on another thread,it was all so easy when they were babies!

[SoupDragon]

(wasn't meant to sound harsh about the "team player" bit - it's incredibly frustrating when you know the answer but your team is slower!)

[georgia73]

Does anyone think what Iam thinking? I love conspiracies so might be getting carried away.
A poosibility is the head of maths knew nothing of this cock up till i called her and she then as i asked her too looked up the exam results of the last 2 yrs..she would of seen ds top in every case. They don't expect anyone in yr7 to get gold in the maths challenge so its possible they forgot ds did and just picked the two who got silver...then realising ds got gold..corrected this?
I just find it really strange that this girl has supposedly pulled out...no way would her mum keep her out of that...I know its possible..but'''.
I don't know what to think now??
Do you think they have realised their mistake but can't let me know that they made a mistake?

[soapbox]

Georgia - I don 't think they would have told the girl not to come if she had already been chosen. That would be most unfair indeed! So I think it is unlikely to have been that.

It all sounds a bit of a muddle tbh!

I agree with many of the other posters though, that your reaction to this seems a bit extreme! I'm all for parental support for our DCs but threatening to pull him from school if he wasn't on the team sounds very very precious - sorry!

[georgia73]

Thanks Soupy and Philly. Yes I see the point that perhaps he should have gotten the others to help a bit more...but he said they didn't have a clue.
The school badly wants to do well in this comp..its a national thing and they make a big deal out of it, so I still don't get their explanation.
On the school withdrawal..I think it was a knee jerk reaction..but there are other things i haven't been happy with too..and there is a very good private school just down the road..but we don't know if we can afford it..its bit more expensive as ds has scholarship which we would have to give up.
I am just not a complainer and this has shook me up and I feel I have no faith in the school anymore.
Its heartbreaking to see your big 5foot 10 teenager cry ..and say he nonger wants to try.

[soapbox]

Well in that case then do spend some time evaluating what you want for your son and whether hte school is delivering it.

How well integrated is he socially within the school - would changing be a big wrench for him?

[SleepyJess]

Yes it's entirely possible. Likely even. But best not to dwell really. You will have to tell DS that 'someone has pulled out and you are now going' rather than 'the school have seen sense.. you are now going' but perhaps encourage him not to focus on WHY he now in the team. Just say 'you are in now, that's the main thing! Remember to work WITH your team.. and have fun showing the teachers that you belong on the team! :)"

Hope he/his team do well. I think it sounds quite terrifying.. my DS's Y9 maths homework is beyond me.. and he isn't even in the top set!!

SJ x

[frogs]

I would chill. Frankly.

And I speak as the mother of a dd1 who is by far the most academically able in her Y6 group, but has consistently failed to win school prizes, be selected for teams, leading roles in plays etc. because the ethos of the school is to choose the child who they think will benefit the most from the experience rather than the most naturally gifted.

Yes, that is often frustrating and has occasionally made me angry -- dd1 has just sat Grammar school entrance exams and achieved the highest score out of all the 350+ entrants. The school know this and not one damn member of staff has seen fit to congratulate dd1 on her achievement, presumably 'cos they disapprove of selective schools. And that has made me pretty annoyed and disappointed on her behalf.

But she has learnt useful lessons from her time in the school, in particular to set her own goals and work towards them without relying on external motivation and encouragement; to measure her performance against her own personal best rather than other people's targets; and to stand up for what she enjoys and believes in, regardless of what other people think. And she has also learnt that academic ability is not the be-all and end-all, and that other children have all sorts of qualities and skills that she can usefully learn from.

I don't want to come over all smug here, but however bright a child is, they need to learn that they can't have all the prizes all the time, and to learn to cope with disappointment and unfairness as well as praise and rewards.

[Philly]

Georgia73 you are not in suffolk are you?

[Piffle]

Piffle read this and was for you

Ask so that you can give your son solid reasons, if it is his attitude/achievement in other subjects that has let him down, then perhaps the school has bitton of its nose to spite its face
It seems like they are choosing a team based on other reasons and as your ds is a very nigh achiever then he has a right to know what has excluded him from being in the team.
If my ds was left out given his maths performance I too would be for him.
I think you might need to backtrack to the school about pulling him out though, that was a little rash :) (understand it though) and ask them to explain it to your very upset and confused ds.

[georgia73]

Just want to add...Thank you this has really helped me put things into perspective..Your kind words ans support have meant a lot to me..Iam sorry if I sound precious..I just feel wretched..I can't help it. But I do feel a bit better coming on here. Thanks

[SleepyJess]

Very wise post Frogs. Your little girl sounds lovely. She will be a very clever, well-rounded adult one day.

[LIZS]

georgia, I can understand your upset but think maybe you are reading too much into the selection process. Our school aims for an inclusive selection policy so each child gets an opportunity to participate, gifted or not,and represent the school as it is a good motivator. It is perfectly possible they need a balanced team with 4 who have varied strengths. You are right to question this but it may be that they felt others were more rounded and could personally benefit more. Perhaps your son has a tendency to dominate a group in that subject because he knows it is one area he can prove himself and gets over anxious to do so. Anyway it sounds as if he is now doing the team challenge so all is well.

[SleepyJess]

Georgia you don't sound precious. There is nothing more -inducing than feeling that your child is being unfairly treated!

It's not as if you were planning to kill off the other team members.. like that father of the tennis-kid!! (In fact he DID kill someone I think! Only caught part of the news!)