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To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

(934 Posts)
MenstruatorExtraordinaire Tue 09-Jul-19 11:17:08

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

Jog22 Tue 09-Jul-19 11:19:48

You are very reasonable but - sigh - you are suggesting we invalidate them which is of course, worse than death.

CassianAndor Tue 09-Jul-19 11:22:27

of course they should be, it is utterly ludicrous to suggest that their actual sex be erased from their files etc.

And I also don't think that the language around sexed medical issues should change - I'm not a cervix having, or a bleeder or any of the other revolting unsexed phrases that are being trotted out.

CitadelsofScience Tue 09-Jul-19 11:24:01

It will skew statistics on things like cervical screening and prostate screening if people aren't correctly sexed on medical records.

Weathergirl1 Tue 09-Jul-19 11:28:38

@Citadelsofscience makes a fair point. I have a good friend who has transitioned and she has had issues with medical staff thinking she might be pregnant & the cervical screening programme. And has concerns about being forgotten about regarding prostate issues in the future.

ManyBoysMum Tue 09-Jul-19 11:31:01

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CitadelsofScience Tue 09-Jul-19 11:31:10

Yes Weather people, no matter what sex they are, might needlessly die because they haven't had the correct screening. That's not being transphobic, that's saying we need to prevent deaths wherever possible.

sugarbum Tue 09-Jul-19 11:32:40

Absolutely. Sex needs to be recorded. That surely is a no-brainer (you'd think)

minisoksmakehardwork Tue 09-Jul-19 11:34:22

In this case it does look like the dr was being a bigot, by refusing to address a patient with their preferred pronouns.

But there is absolutely a need for transgender people to have their biological sex recorded, no matter how much they wish to erase it. simply because male and female bodies have some unique aspects that regardless of external appearances, need to be considered when presenting to drs with associated symptoms.

BasilTheGreat Tue 09-Jul-19 11:35:24

I’m so fed up with this transgender and lgbt issue I couldn’t care less. It’s just gone to far and it’s far beyond an equality issue. I’m happy for them to live the life they want but I feel some of them have gone beyond reason.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult Tue 09-Jul-19 11:39:50

That doctor refused to address people by their preferred pronouns. It would have made no difference to his life to address people in the way they request and he knowingly upset them. Quite right he was sacked imo.

I had a hell of a time getting my child's name changed on their medical records, but not their sex. TRAs aren't making things easy.

Datun Tue 09-Jul-19 11:42:09

We've been told by transsexuals on FWR, that when they went for treatment, and/or a GRC, the medics concerned got them to sign a form to say they still knew they were biologically male.

I'm guessing they weren't about to legally validate, or operate on, someone who was actually delusional.

So this concept that a man is literally a woman, is, it would seem, fairly new.

And yes, of course, it's going to throw up all kinds of problems. Which will involve time, money, suing, pain, confusion. All of it, completely avoidable.

If you want to force people to believe you are literally the opposite sex, there is something wrong.

This man was defending his use of pronouns based on religion and reality. The fact that he is also a doctor, is presumably informing his attitude, as well.

It's the coercion that conflicts with so much. Reality, religion, facts, statistics, freedom of speech, the lot. It's never ending.

Joskin69 Tue 09-Jul-19 11:44:06

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Dontsweatthelittlestuff Tue 09-Jul-19 11:47:07

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Reallybadidea Tue 09-Jul-19 11:48:23

But this doctor wasnt just refusing to accept that this individual had changed biological sex, which would have been totally justified. He was actually refusing to use this person's preferred pronouns because of his religion. Nothing to do with medical reasons at all, as far as I can tell. So yes, I do think he is being bigoted and was fairly sacked.

Datun Tue 09-Jul-19 11:50:55

But that's the thing, isn't it? Suddenly pronouns are no longer an indicator of sex. When they absolutely are.

PinkyU Tue 09-Jul-19 11:55:45

I think that this is a decision that should be discussed and decided (by consensus) by the trans community, you know, the people who are actually impacted by it. Not a bunch of biased, ill-informed individuals on a parenting forum.

MenstruatorExtraordinaire Tue 09-Jul-19 12:00:44

I think I remember seeing that Datun I'm not sure why things have become this crazy where people genuinely seem to think they have actually changed sex and so it's not important to point out to medical professionals that you are in fact still male or female.

Lifeover Tue 09-Jul-19 12:02:02

Well if someone is happy to die from prostate cancer because they insist on being a woman guess that’s up to them. But I’m guessing that they would soon be kicking off it their prostate cancer was missed by some doctor going along with their la la land role play of being a woman.

I wondering whether the pup play weirdos will be demanding to see a vet soon

MenstruatorExtraordinaire Tue 09-Jul-19 12:03:31

Well we all know it's important to have your pets neutered....

Datun Tue 09-Jul-19 12:05:05

I think that this is a decision that should be discussed and decided (by consensus) by the trans community, you know, the people who are actually impacted by it.

I imagine the man who was fired over it, would disagree somewhat about who has been impacted.

CassandraGemini Tue 09-Jul-19 12:06:50

At a medical appointment recently where treatment would vary according to my biology, I was asked to point to a laminated sheet to choose which procedure I felt applicable to me - they were not allowed to assume based on my appearance. That was a bit of a ‘WTF’ moment I have to say.

TeamUnicorn Tue 09-Jul-19 12:07:38

Yeah I'm kind of in the 'don't want people to die/be ill unnecessarily' camp. Along with the ridiculous waste of time and money contacting individuals who don't need that screening etc.

And I am not sure pinky why you think everyone is uninformed.

Dontsweatthelittlestuff Tue 09-Jul-19 12:08:48

The nhs is stretched enough. It doesn’t need to be wasting money on giving a trans man a smear test for his non existent vagina.

CassianAndor Tue 09-Jul-19 12:10:48

Pinky we all pay for and use the NHS, therefore we all get to have and voice an opinion about something that could cost the NHS a shit ton of money unnecessarily.

And as a woman I certainly get to have a say and an opinion in the language used around exclusively female health issues.

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