To think that for medical reasons it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed

[MenstruatorExtraordinaire]

Saw this doctor on This Morning being called a bigot by Piers Morgan

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7227479/Doctor-sues-government-sacked-trans-views.html

Religious views aside, I think he raises an important point.

I've seen several cases recently where transgender people have been incorrectly identified by medical staff leading to their death/serious injury or the death of a baby.

Surely the solution is to retain their correct sex on medical records, birth certificate etc with a TG marker.

So AIBU to think that for medical reasons alone it is important that transgender people are correctly sexed?

Do trans female accept a drop in wages, too. Shall we ask Pip?

But we know that transwomen can get their pensions early when many women cannot!

@PinkyU

You took the first 2 sentences of an informed reply and ignored the rest.

Marriage is a legally binding contract which two consenting adults make an informed choice to enter into or not.

Government is also a concept with legally binding ramifications and, on the most part, influenced by democratic processes such as voting and a range of choices in terms of support.

Racism is not a societal construct. It's real prejudice and actions aimed towards groups who are perceived as deserving of this due to their skin colour and ethnicity. The ideals causing racism are constructs of the ignorant. Not the actual racism itself.

None of these examples are having the impact that TRA are at the moment. Marriage is a choice, government is regulated and racism is illegal. The TRA movement is an entirely new challenge on women's rights.

I would like biological sex records kept for reason of monitoring health trends and funding etc but, to be honest, if people want to be stupid about it and risk their health that's their lookout. Medics should get them to sign something saying that any misdiagnosis or incorrect treatment caused because of this lack of info on their records is entirely at their own risk. Maybe they should also be charged if they are costing the NHS money/time through inviting them to inappropriate services such as smears.

@CuriousaboutSamphire - have you looked into genetics and how many varieties of 'sex' there are, and how an XY person can appear female?

Unless you've has chromosome testing, how are you sure you're XX?

In cancer when bone marrow transplants are required - ideally opposite sex so can see if the transplant has taken. This could cause huge issues

If they choose to miss out on cervical or prostate screening because they don't record their biological sex then that's their right to do so, surely?

Or that's when they turn around and say you should have advertised it's people with a prostate who need a test, not men.

So yes, that does, of course impact everybody else. Who doesn't want to be known as a cervix haver, or a person with a prostate.

And yes, it impacts me and my taxes when biological men show up for smear tests. Not to mention my sense of reality.

If you don't think it happens, check out the other thread about an individual known as JY, born male, who is assuring the British Columbia human rights tribunal, that yes they require tampons, and yes their gynaecologist assures them they don't have cervical cancer.

How is cervical screening take-up recorded? If it's done on appointments made and transwomen are on the medical records as women, then isn't that going to cause incorrect data being recorded? The same applies to a prostate examination.

Police in Scotland record the stated sex that an arrested person identifies as at the time.
So I assume that means that Jim Smith who was arrested last week can be Mary Smith a female when arrested this week - how the heck do you keep proper police records in that scenario.

Sex is not gender.
Gender is not sex.

Totally agree with you on this point Xarra. It's a little weird that you then go on to talk about a trans man having a female gender because periods though, that would be sex.

I don't see why there aren't just two boxes to fill in for health information: biological sex and gender identity.

It's completely bonkers to lie on official medical documents.

YANBU - correct sex should be out on medical documents and TG choices on a tick box.

Unless you've has chromosome testing, how are you sure you're XX?

Seriously? Adults cannot continue to have this conversation.

It isn't - until a transwoman turns up for cervical screening and wastes NHS time and money.

Or a transman is invited for prostate screening and does not get offered cervical screening

A) how likely is it that a transwoman will turn up for cervical screening/ transman for prostate screening?

B) if they do, then it will very quickly become obvious that they don't have a cervix/ prostate - yes, it would be a waste of an appointment but currently many appointments are wasted because patients forget, don't turn up, change their minds. I doubt the small number of appointments potentially wasted due to these circumstances are going to make any impact.

How many will turn up? Who knows. Doctors made men sign a form to say they knew they were biologically male, and they were recorded as such, to prevent the deluded or the fetishistic taking advantage.

Who is benefiting from that rule now being dispensed with?

It makes zero sense and benefits no one. As previous posters have said, sex should be recorded according to reality, and gender, if it differs. That is then just about the most informed a doctor can be, in terms of the provision of treatment.

No room for confusion, whatsoever.

No it’s everyone’s decision to make. As we all pay for the NHS. And many of us work in it as well.

How far should this I pay for the NHS therefore I get to make decisions about your health extend?

Do you really want to go there? That we, as tax payers, should be able to decide what health care patients are eligible for based on their life choices? Only there are lots of life style choices that the NHS currently pays for that I maybe don't agree with so where shall we draw the line?

Nice try Decomposing.
That answer was specifically to PinkyU's comment that it shouldn't just be the trans community that decides.

Whoops, that should read that it should only be the trans community that decides

It's interesting that doctors can refuse to perform abortions on women for religious reasons, but there are complaints that religion isn't a good enough reason in this case.

And why is it acceptable to hand unimaginable power to these deranged individuals? That they can chase women through the courts, or tribunals, and basically earn a living from suing.

Normal people are perfectly happy to record biological reality for the sake of their health, or statistics.

My understanding is that there are two sexws but thousands of genders. Recording gender on health records is presumably difficult to implement as the list keeps getting longer and in no way relates to health care provision. The only thing gender can be used for us to moniror inequalities.

prophet and tanith very very relevant.

On a slightly different tack - why is it OK for doctors and medical staff to refuse to treat abortion-related complications on religious grounds (as happened last week, I believe), yet a doctor misgendering for the same reason results in dismissal?

Because the law allows drs to opt out of performing abortions on the grounds of conscientious objection.

Well I conscientiously object to compelled speech.

There was a hoo ha about a blood bank pushing actual, real sex and traumatising a potential donor who was asked if 'he' had been pregnant recently. Which was likely because biologically they were a woman.

The fact that the donated blood of a woman who had been pregnant could potentially be fatal in some cases to the recipient was deemed almost 'collateral damage'against hurt feelings or a bubble burst.

Misgendering is not against the law, it is unlawful to force someone to express a belief they do not hold, so in fact those people enforcing speech are the ones breaking the law.

JY also was presenting 100% as a man when requesting female beauticians who only did female genital waxing wax his balls. In their own homes. When their children were present.