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AIBU?

Should I change DD to a different school?

132 replies

eleanorsmom · 31/12/2017 08:48

DD3 is 8 years old and in the same school where DD1 completed, DD2 is in Year 8, and DS is in Year 6. It’s a wonderful school with many hands-on projects, good attention to children’s social emotional development, integrated curriculum, etc. I work in a different part of the school that does teacher training using the school’s philosophy and model. DH is on the governance committee.

DD3 is not perfect but she is the last child I expected to have difficulty at school. She is very social with many friends. She does well in school with no academic difficulties. Her reports have always been very good with a few areas to work on (like being more flexible in group work - she can sometimes have an idea she really gets attached to and has trouble letting it go).

DD3 has a teacher this year who is notoriously difficult for some children. I thought the problem was usually with wiggly boys. DD has all of her best friends in the class so she was looking forward to the year. DD2 had the teacher and she didn’t have any problems. So I didn’t think much of it when DD3 was assigned to the class.

The teacher has been at the school for at least 20 years and she makes curriculum interesting (they learn about the Silk Road with many integrated art, science and writing projects, field trips, etc). However, her relationships with children are poor. In conferences, she is not able to describe individual children’s learning styles or personalities at all, let alone how she works with them. (Instead, she describes the curriculum and what children need to do better, with the same advice for every child). In class, she continually tells children their work is not good enough and is randomly punitive in small ways. A small handful of parents interpret her style as high standards and they like it. A bunch of others figure there is good along with bad. Every year there are a couple of kids who really have a hard time with her, and every couple of years a kid is devastated and ends up leaving the school. (There’s a long history of poor leadership in that part of the school, the kids who leave were often wobbly in the first place, and the parents who have really gone after the teacher have done it in an obnoxious way, so the teacher is still there year after year, despite having a long and wide reputation).

Two of DD3’s friends had a really hard time with the teacher from the beginning of the year. DD3 has had a low level of mild complaining, which is unusual for her, but I thought she might be picking up on her friends’ complaining.

At the end of October I noticed there was an area near DD3’s hairline where the hair was prickly, like it had come out a few weeks before. She said her hair tie got pulled out in gym class, which seemed unlikely, but I let it go. Throughout November, I occasionally saw her rubbing a strand of hair across her lips and I told her to stop “flossing” with it. Then in early December I put her hair into ponytails one morning and all of a sudden I realized that she had a large area that was missing hair and that she had been pulling it out. I've got photos that pinpoint the time as starting around mid October (normal hairline) and drastically changing by early December.

I met with the school leadership (and eventually the teacher - I was initially worried that the problem would be worse if she felt cornered so I didn’t meet with her right away). I had DD3 meet several times with a psychologist who used to work at the school and knows the teacher. I told the psychologist that I was open to hearing that the home life was the cause of the problem, or a big part of it. I took DD3 to the doctor to make sure it wasn’t alopecia or thyroid issues or whatever.

I asked DD3 “what’s hard about being in the teacher’s class?” And she gave me a long, long list that is well summarized by her first sentence: “she blames kids for acting like normal kids.” I’ve seen the teacher casually demean children. For example, during drop off one morning: “Evan, could you come do a task for me? I need papers filed. I see that you aren’t doing your reading anyway.” (The child was momentarily daydreaming, not bothering anyone). That kind of comment doesn’t bother many kids but it seems to really bother DD3, even when it’s not aimed at her.

I noticed the problem Dec 11. Here is where we are now:
DD3 has stopped pulling her hair. She has fingernail polish that she chips instead, and her hair is in cornrow braids (which she likes), so the habit part seems to have broken. The school is monitoring when she chips her nails so we can tell when she’s anxious (she never does it at home).
The psychologist lays the blame for DD3’s anxiety squarely with the teacher. DD3’s need to be good enough and to have a positive relationship with her teacher is at odds with the teacher’s constantly telling kids they are not good enough.
We are of course reducing stress anywhere we can, so we are making changes at home, but there isn’t much to work on.
We are talking to DD3 (and the other kids, as a family) about stress being normal and that everyone needs to have good ways to manage it.
The school leadership acknowledges the problem and is trying to get the teacher to change. The teacher wants to change but really does not understand what she is doing wrong. There is a good coach working with the teacher (someone I like and trust), going in to give the teacher feedback, and they are doing lightening up things like dance party and reading silly stories in the classroom.
DD3 has had some massive blowups with her friends last week (the week after we made this discovery). We think that she is finally letting her emotions out rather than internalizing them. Which is better than pulling her hair, but she has missed a couple of hours of class processing the problems, and the teacher really doesn’t know how to handle social problems well. DD3 cried for half an hour one day before the coach overheard her and intervened (that has never happened in school before).
We have until Jan 8 before DD3 goes back to school. Our options are:
Leave DD3 in the class with as much support as possible (reminding her that the teacher has a problem with criticizing, continuing to see the school psychologist, etc)
Move DD3 to the other class (if it is an option - the school has gone back and forth on that. It would be hard to come up with a narrative for the parents and children about why it is happening. And other parents would want to move their kids)
Move DD3 to another school for the rest of the year, then return to this school (of course she could stay at the other school if she wants to). The other school is a school where I used to work, about 10 miles away. This would compromise my work but I can afford it professionally and financially, if needed.
Homeschool for the rest of the year. (I have a good friend who homeschools so she would join existing groups for writing and math and so on)
Considerations are:
We don’t want DD3 to think that she isn’t strong enough to deal with a difficult situation. We don’t want her to remember this year as the year she couldn’t handle it and had to run away.
On the other hand, we want DD3 to understand that she can leave an abusive relationship!
She won’t want to leave her friends who are all in the class.
On the other hand, she is really good at making new friends.
The teacher is getting help but we have to assume the school will lose focus and things will settle back more or less to the way they were, especially if DD3 stops pulling her hair and the dramatic clue that she is stressed and anxious is gone (i.e. she could still be very stressed and anxious, but without the hair pulling, we wouldn’t know. She keeps it all inside).
Even if we are giving DD3 support at home, the daily cutting of a mean teacher is hard for a kid to handle
If DD3 leaves the school and returns, it will be a story that follows her until the end of her time there (5 more years)
If DD3 changes classes, the other teacher will handle it well, but there will be all sorts of drama among the parents and the current teacher would make it awkward and difficult every time DD3 sees her in the hallway, at lunchtime, etc.

What would you do and AIBU to consider leaving the school?

OP posts:
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eleanorsmom · 31/12/2017 08:50

And if you read that whole post, thank you! It was therapeutic just to write it out . . . .

OP posts:
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FlouncyDoves · 31/12/2017 08:53

YABU not to be a little more concise in your post!

I don’t really understand why you’re even asking; your daughter is stressed at school, the teacher seems to be the cause (although it’s more likely that your daughter has mental health issues that need addressing). You take her out, place her in a different school and see if the situation improves, along with continuing psychological help.

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Discusting · 31/12/2017 08:53

I would move her. She is clearly very distressed. I would try to organise a class move but if that isn’t possible then ultimately a new school might be better. Could you home school for the rest of this academic year?

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StillWorkingOnACleverNN · 31/12/2017 09:04

I am sorry. The details are still swirling around in my head so much that organizing them at all feels concise.

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StillWorkingOnACleverNN · 31/12/2017 09:07

(This is OP, I just changed nicknames). I think the part that is rattling me is that the school leadership, who I normally think are very strong, think it is sufficient to give the teacher a good coach. They are surprised I'm considering taking her out. And DH is not fully supportive.

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Lowdoorinthewal1 · 31/12/2017 09:10

I would leave her where she is with support.

She will meet lots of different teachers (and bosses) over the years. Some will be good, some won't- and some will have really difficult personalities. If you pull her out, especially just for the next 2 terms, I think it will be a pretty strong message for her that you run and hide from that situation. I think calling it an abusive relationship is a bit strong TBH- a lot of the things your DD is stressed about are not even aimed at her are they? The teacher is using negative language to make the children avoid off-task behaviour. It's not great practise, but it's not like she's caning them. Your DD is more than likely to meet other teachers and bosses that do the same. Will you insist on a 'coach' for them all?

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Pengggwn · 31/12/2017 09:11

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Pengggwn · 31/12/2017 09:12

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Iwanttobe8stoneagain · 31/12/2017 09:13

I think leaving her in the class would be best with support from the school. I would also look into counselling as it sounds like there is an underlying issue that could have been triggered by the teaching style. At least once this years done it’s done. Asking a day dreaming child to help with filing is not demeaning at all - it’s prompting them to stop Day dreaming and knuckle down ( although recently experience of new graduate intake would indicate there is a lot of this is beneath me attitude these days). What happens if you move school and there’s an issue with a teacher next year? The teacher just sounds very old school and strict.

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LavenderDoll · 31/12/2017 09:14

I don't think from what you have said the teacher sounds bad or abusive.
I also don't think referring it to an abusive relationship is helpful or reminding your daughter of the negative qualities you say the teacher has.

I'm glad that there is help in place within the school for your daughter

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BertrandRussell · 31/12/2017 09:17

Do you genuinely think this teacher’s relationship with your child is abusive?

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AuntieStella · 31/12/2017 09:19

OP you come across as quite judgemental - you've prejudged what's 'wobbly' and thought it applied to other pupils.

Your DD is currently having a bad patch, and you have decided that the teacher is both problem and adversary. That does not sound as if there is any prospect that this can be worked through. Remember - 'everyone' (including you until this year) thinks it's only children with problems who leave after being in her class.

It is very unlikely that this is the case, however firmly you believed it. There are two terms to go with this form teacher. Are you rwally going to pull your DD out, and lose all the other good years in the school? Are there really no ways to support her? Does your older DC (who had the same teacher) have a good relationship with her?

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chickensarethebest · 31/12/2017 09:20

Have you asked DD?

Put the options in front of her, let her have the time to process them and also point out she can change her mind at any time?

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Iwanttobe8stoneagain · 31/12/2017 09:21

And I’m afraid calling this an abusive relationship is unbelievable. Some people your Dd comes into contact with will be gel with her style others won’t.

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shakeyourcaboose · 31/12/2017 09:21

Agree that referring to the teacher's teaching style as an 'abusive' relationship is a bit much! Glad there is support at the school.

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StillWorkingOnACleverNN · 31/12/2017 09:21

I am not sure how to talk to DD about what is distressing her if not the teacher's "problem with criticizing." I need to be able to talk to her about her negative experience with the teacher. If she stays in the class, she'll need to recognize when she's bothered by something the teacher does or says, and if she leaves, we'll need a way to talk about it now and in the future.

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Pengggwn · 31/12/2017 09:23

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Hoppinggreen · 31/12/2017 09:27

I think that a large part of the problem is that you know too much about the internal workings of the school, which I appreciate is a natural consequence of your job
However, you seem to prejudge situations based on what has happened before and ther personalities involved
Your DD clearly has MH issues which you are addressing and it’s unfortunate that this particular teacher doesn’t seem to suit her and possibly makes things worse but she WILL have to learn resilience and how to deal with people of all kinds and who don’t bring out the best in her.
I have had a DD who self harmed last year,mainly due to School issues but I never thought about moving her as the benefits outweighed the downsides of the school ( although if she really wanted to we wouid have). Just keep working with the School and possibly external help for your dd

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StillWorkingOnACleverNN · 31/12/2017 09:29

I hear you about the word abusive. I haven't and wouldn't used it with DD. I think DD's experience of the relationship is in that direction and it's not a bad lesson that one doesn't have to remain in situations that are bad.

DH and I are planning to discuss the possibility of leaving with DD on Tuesday and then decide by the weekend. DD will see the psychologist twice next week and DH and I will see her together on Friday. So perhaps DD will understand that it's a possibility to leave and actively want to stay, and work on better ways to manage her anxiety.

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Pengggwn · 31/12/2017 09:29

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LIZS · 31/12/2017 09:30

Are you not in UK or is it a private school? Tbh you sound rather too close to this situation to make an objective decision. Changing schools is drastic and needs to be for the long term. Did the psychologist look beyond the anxiety as to whether your dd has underlying issues which may make her find it more difficult to cope? It would be better ti coach your dd through the rest of this year, changing class if needs be but that in itself will bring problems if her friends are left and she feels she is at fault.

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Pengggwn · 31/12/2017 09:30

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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PeppaPigTastesLikeBacon · 31/12/2017 09:31

its A difficult one. I would probably move her out of the class rather than the school. It’s not down to you to parent the other kids or try and figure out what they will do next. Your child is suffering and needs to be removed from the situation.
If the other parents kick up a fuss then the school will have to do something more drastic with the teacher as they will see that it’s a wider problem than just one child (this is the schools problem not yours).

Btw, changing username part way through is annoying as your posts won’t be highlighted so harder to follow if the thread gets long

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lookingforthecorkscrew · 31/12/2017 09:31

Hello, ex teacher here! I would have your daughter move classes, to hell with the furore it may cause with the other parents - if their child was pulling out their hair to relieve stress they’d do the same in a heartbeat.

I would be VERY wary of pulling a child out completely for two terms then reintegrating them the next academic year - that could well be more distressing for your DD.

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PeppaPigTastesLikeBacon · 31/12/2017 09:33

I missed the bit about comparing it to an abusive relationship. It really isn’t the same. Why would anyone think because they had to stick a year with a teacher means they have to put up with an abusive relationship? That’s totally bonkers

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