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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should I change DD to a different school?

132 replies

eleanorsmom · 31/12/2017 08:48

DD3 is 8 years old and in the same school where DD1 completed, DD2 is in Year 8, and DS is in Year 6. It’s a wonderful school with many hands-on projects, good attention to children’s social emotional development, integrated curriculum, etc. I work in a different part of the school that does teacher training using the school’s philosophy and model. DH is on the governance committee.

DD3 is not perfect but she is the last child I expected to have difficulty at school. She is very social with many friends. She does well in school with no academic difficulties. Her reports have always been very good with a few areas to work on (like being more flexible in group work - she can sometimes have an idea she really gets attached to and has trouble letting it go).

DD3 has a teacher this year who is notoriously difficult for some children. I thought the problem was usually with wiggly boys. DD has all of her best friends in the class so she was looking forward to the year. DD2 had the teacher and she didn’t have any problems. So I didn’t think much of it when DD3 was assigned to the class.

The teacher has been at the school for at least 20 years and she makes curriculum interesting (they learn about the Silk Road with many integrated art, science and writing projects, field trips, etc). However, her relationships with children are poor. In conferences, she is not able to describe individual children’s learning styles or personalities at all, let alone how she works with them. (Instead, she describes the curriculum and what children need to do better, with the same advice for every child). In class, she continually tells children their work is not good enough and is randomly punitive in small ways. A small handful of parents interpret her style as high standards and they like it. A bunch of others figure there is good along with bad. Every year there are a couple of kids who really have a hard time with her, and every couple of years a kid is devastated and ends up leaving the school. (There’s a long history of poor leadership in that part of the school, the kids who leave were often wobbly in the first place, and the parents who have really gone after the teacher have done it in an obnoxious way, so the teacher is still there year after year, despite having a long and wide reputation).

Two of DD3’s friends had a really hard time with the teacher from the beginning of the year. DD3 has had a low level of mild complaining, which is unusual for her, but I thought she might be picking up on her friends’ complaining.

At the end of October I noticed there was an area near DD3’s hairline where the hair was prickly, like it had come out a few weeks before. She said her hair tie got pulled out in gym class, which seemed unlikely, but I let it go. Throughout November, I occasionally saw her rubbing a strand of hair across her lips and I told her to stop “flossing” with it. Then in early December I put her hair into ponytails one morning and all of a sudden I realized that she had a large area that was missing hair and that she had been pulling it out. I've got photos that pinpoint the time as starting around mid October (normal hairline) and drastically changing by early December.

I met with the school leadership (and eventually the teacher - I was initially worried that the problem would be worse if she felt cornered so I didn’t meet with her right away). I had DD3 meet several times with a psychologist who used to work at the school and knows the teacher. I told the psychologist that I was open to hearing that the home life was the cause of the problem, or a big part of it. I took DD3 to the doctor to make sure it wasn’t alopecia or thyroid issues or whatever.

I asked DD3 “what’s hard about being in the teacher’s class?” And she gave me a long, long list that is well summarized by her first sentence: “she blames kids for acting like normal kids.” I’ve seen the teacher casually demean children. For example, during drop off one morning: “Evan, could you come do a task for me? I need papers filed. I see that you aren’t doing your reading anyway.” (The child was momentarily daydreaming, not bothering anyone). That kind of comment doesn’t bother many kids but it seems to really bother DD3, even when it’s not aimed at her.

I noticed the problem Dec 11. Here is where we are now:
DD3 has stopped pulling her hair. She has fingernail polish that she chips instead, and her hair is in cornrow braids (which she likes), so the habit part seems to have broken. The school is monitoring when she chips her nails so we can tell when she’s anxious (she never does it at home).
The psychologist lays the blame for DD3’s anxiety squarely with the teacher. DD3’s need to be good enough and to have a positive relationship with her teacher is at odds with the teacher’s constantly telling kids they are not good enough.
We are of course reducing stress anywhere we can, so we are making changes at home, but there isn’t much to work on.
We are talking to DD3 (and the other kids, as a family) about stress being normal and that everyone needs to have good ways to manage it.
The school leadership acknowledges the problem and is trying to get the teacher to change. The teacher wants to change but really does not understand what she is doing wrong. There is a good coach working with the teacher (someone I like and trust), going in to give the teacher feedback, and they are doing lightening up things like dance party and reading silly stories in the classroom.
DD3 has had some massive blowups with her friends last week (the week after we made this discovery). We think that she is finally letting her emotions out rather than internalizing them. Which is better than pulling her hair, but she has missed a couple of hours of class processing the problems, and the teacher really doesn’t know how to handle social problems well. DD3 cried for half an hour one day before the coach overheard her and intervened (that has never happened in school before).
We have until Jan 8 before DD3 goes back to school. Our options are:
Leave DD3 in the class with as much support as possible (reminding her that the teacher has a problem with criticizing, continuing to see the school psychologist, etc)
Move DD3 to the other class (if it is an option - the school has gone back and forth on that. It would be hard to come up with a narrative for the parents and children about why it is happening. And other parents would want to move their kids)
Move DD3 to another school for the rest of the year, then return to this school (of course she could stay at the other school if she wants to). The other school is a school where I used to work, about 10 miles away. This would compromise my work but I can afford it professionally and financially, if needed.
Homeschool for the rest of the year. (I have a good friend who homeschools so she would join existing groups for writing and math and so on)
Considerations are:
We don’t want DD3 to think that she isn’t strong enough to deal with a difficult situation. We don’t want her to remember this year as the year she couldn’t handle it and had to run away.
On the other hand, we want DD3 to understand that she can leave an abusive relationship!
She won’t want to leave her friends who are all in the class.
On the other hand, she is really good at making new friends.
The teacher is getting help but we have to assume the school will lose focus and things will settle back more or less to the way they were, especially if DD3 stops pulling her hair and the dramatic clue that she is stressed and anxious is gone (i.e. she could still be very stressed and anxious, but without the hair pulling, we wouldn’t know. She keeps it all inside).
Even if we are giving DD3 support at home, the daily cutting of a mean teacher is hard for a kid to handle
If DD3 leaves the school and returns, it will be a story that follows her until the end of her time there (5 more years)
If DD3 changes classes, the other teacher will handle it well, but there will be all sorts of drama among the parents and the current teacher would make it awkward and difficult every time DD3 sees her in the hallway, at lunchtime, etc.

What would you do and AIBU to consider leaving the school?

OP posts:
Loonoonow · 31/12/2017 23:51

Hi granny & rossi. I agree that tone can make a massive difference and that we are all sensitive to different things. My doubts are based in the fact that the teacher involved has been there so long and it seems to be a minority of students that seem to have significant issues with her. It seems possible that it is the particular combination of the OPs child and the teacher that are causing problems. That is why I thought homeschooling and spending more time with her might be helpful.

To be honest, I have my own regrets about not taking a DC out of school when they were unhappy (not a teacher issue, more that they were not suited to the large classes we have in the UK state system). This was about 20 years ago when home-schooling was less common than it is now so it never occurred to me as a possibility. I wish I had done it as I think it could have helped my DC enormously. For that reason I would always advocate for taking an unhappy child out of school if possible and it does seem possible here.

grannytomine · 01/01/2018 10:58

I home schooled mine for the first 4 years of formal education, never regretted it. I don't think 4 and 5 year old are always ready for it, as you say large classes can be daunting even with a lovely teacher. I felt at 8 they were well able to cope and it was true with the exception of one who had a terrible time with bullying, by children but with one very unsympathetic teacher.

RestingGrinchFace · 01/01/2018 11:18

I think that:

  1. For the time being the school is being proactive in trying to manage the problem.
  2. Despite this, the teacher isn't likely to change in a meaningful way.
  3. That this is a good opportunity for your DDs personal development.

As you have said, most children deal with the teacher's terrible behaviour. It is of course natural for children to want to please their teachers but at some point they do need to grow out of this mentality and realise that some people are not worth bothering with. Her concerns over the way that other children are treated, while indicative of a caring spirit, are a bit concerning. As people get older they need to realise that others are capable of dealing with their own problems most of the time and if they are not then that isn't really sonething that we as wholly separate individuals are responsible for. Your daughter seems quite mature emotionally, socially well developed and quite sensitive to the concerns of others as a result. Unfortunately, while such character traits are beneficial in forming friendships and developing a strong sense of morality, they are also a recipe for existential depression. Your daughter seems well supported and seems to have improved. If you think that she is strong enough you should keep her in her present class for the sake of her emotional development.

Cappella · 01/01/2018 11:38

OP, I agree with Bertrand that your DD must feel like the minutae of her daily life and her reactions are under the microscope. I mean this in the kindest possible way (because I have certainly been guilty of this), but she must also be picking up on your anxiety too.

Many high-achieving children can have the propensity to put a lot of pressure on themselves. I have a DD of the same age with "perfectionist" tendencies and it doesn't take much to trigger her.

If I think of the prep my DC were /are in, there are certainly some "old school" teachers who would make this teacher in your school sound mellow by comparison. For instance, one threatens to take scissors to the boys' hair if it gets too long. But the children know that this kind of teaching style is "out of sync" with the general ethos of the school and they learn to deal with the idiosyncrasies of certain teachers in a way that builds up resilience.

It sounds as if there is too much over-analysis going on here. The teacher is not your cup of tea and may not be the most helpful towards your DD, but you have to give your DD the wider perspective and resilience to deal with this, rather than allowing the situation to overshadow your lives.

There are times when I've been in the brink of removing my DC from a school because of some issue or other, but a term later, it's all water under the bridge.

You clearly have good communication with your DD and she has the psychologist too. I would be inclined to hang in there for another term and see if things improve. Try to let your DD "lead" the conversations, rather than asking pointed and /or pressing questions. Few children pull out their hair due to a single factor - i.e. this teacher. I would suspect that your DD's anxiety is more complex and has probably been dormant for some time. The hair-pulling is a manifestation of what she may not yet be aware of or able to put into words. Give her time and space and the most likely outcome is that this will be a phase. I wish you all the best because I know how stressful it can be.

grannytomine · 01/01/2018 15:59

Until I retired I was in HR, adults struggle to deal with this sort of thing and I've seen adults go sick with stress because of a similar clash with a manager. Please people don't minimise this little girls difficulties and don't victim blame because saying things like she needs to learn to deal with it, she's a perfectionist etc is victim blaming.

grannytomine · 01/01/2018 16:00

I would suspect that your DD's anxiety is more complex and has probably been dormant for some time. The hair-pulling is a manifestation of what she may not yet be aware of or able to put into words. Brilliant diagnosis, do you ever need to actually meet the patient?

Cappella · 01/01/2018 18:42

Nobody on here has met the DD, her mum or teacher but many have still suggested taking the DD out of school or changing class.

It may well be the case that if the child has no further contact with this teacher, the anxiety symptoms disappear. Equally it may not and the issues persist in a new class or school. That's not a diagnosis Confused, just acknowledging that the causes of anxiety can often be complex and children can't always put everything into words.

One of my daughters has some perfectionist tendencies and I'm aware she can be super-sensitive to criticism in a way that other children are not, so she needs support in this area. That's not victim-blaming and it was simply a suggestion, as are all the comments on here.

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