School holidays with 2 working parents??????????

[Tom]

How the hell do you manage school holidays????

My boy, Cole, is eligible for State Nursery this September - between 1 and 3.30 pm. After payin gover £200 a week for nursery, this is a blessed relief, and it's not hard to figure out how things can work in term time...

My wife and I both work from home, with complete flexibility... so she can look after our boy in the morning until he goes to nursery at 1pm, and I'll work early morning until 3.30, then pick him up and take over until bedtime... easy. BUT.

What the hell do you do in the school holidays? I get 5 weeks holiday a year, and she is self employed, so if she stops working, she stops earning. It's about 13/14 weeks in the year when there's no childcare provision whatsoever... or at least none that I know about.

So it seems like we'll have to keep him in day nursery until he goes to school proper in a year's time, which will cost us loads, but he'll get decent educational input and there's no problem with holidays... OR... another solution that I've not heard of yet.

And anways, when he starts school, the same problems remain - what the hell do you do in the school holidays?????

School holidays are certainly difficulat for working parents but I think there are several options:

1. Change or reduce working hours for 1 or both parents
2. Pay someone to look after your child in a group setting or a home setting
3. Enlist help from friends or family, possibly on a reciprocal basis

Out of interest, what would be your ideal solution to this problem be?

is that what you`re trying to do tom??

Tom - I think that alot of families who have two parents working continue with their children's after school care during the holidays. What I mean is that if the child goes to a childminder after school then they go to the childminder during the holidays, if he goes to grandma after school he goes to grandma in the holidays, if they attend an after school club after school there is usually a playschmeme run too for these kids. Those who can afford to have a nanny or au pair who has the kids in the holidays. So the only ones who fall through the net are the likes of you and I who do not need childcare during term time but do in holiday time. I initially misread your post and thought the only problem was this coming year when your ds was too young to attend holiday clubs.
As I said before Montessori do holiday clubs search here for your local one , often Leisure centres and local council's run holiday clubs so it may be worth contacting them too - there is another group I know of call Jigsaw who give grants to holiday/afterschool clubs but I am not sure if they are only local to me - I will try and look into them.

Thanks for the search link - the response was: "No schools found for search criteria."

Never mind. I have looked all over the Cardiff Council website and can't find anything, and have googled my heart out trying to find kids clubs in Cardiff to no avail.

I think my preference would be to have my boy in a group setting doing structured creative and educational stuff - at least for the first few years - lots of play and learning together - that's what his nursery does best, and I like it.

I think Jaybee got it right by saying that the ones who fall through the net are the likes of you and I who do not need childcare during term time but do in holiday time - term time is a doddle - no problem with that, as I'm flexible - but I can't just stop work for weeks on end - it's not possible. I mix work and childcare loads but its on the basis that for 35 hours during the week, someone else is looking after him (mix of nursery, wife and friend).

Tick tock.. my turn to look after the boy for the afternoon, so I'd better stop work and messaging and take him off to the park - ice cream time today, methinks!!

Just had a google myself and have found this one .
I also found a link to something the Cardiff council are doing re. childcare provisions but this link didn't work in preview so you will have to cut & paste www.cardiff.gov.uk/Government/english/Council_Papers/Children_Young_Scrutiny/02_12_12_cyp/Reports/Childcare_Strategy_Report.pdf

Fab - I've emailed them and will see what they say
The cardiff council strategy ain't much use though - it's all hopes n dreams, not playgroups and schemes!

Can you not see if you can find a childminder who has spaces in school holidays because they look after teacher's kids during term time - I was with a childminder in the school holidays and just took over the place from a boy who was only there during term time because his mum was a teacher!!

God that sounds like gobbledegook, hope you get the gist!!

Tom - spare a thought for the working single parent! I posted on this a while back and still don't know what I will do. I can reduce my hours to be there to pick DS up from school at the end of the day, but hols are the killer. My employer is flexible but there's a limit to the amount of unpaid leave I can take. I haven't explored play schemes much because frankly I think DS will deserve a break from education at the end of term (I gather kids are exhausted by school, especially at the beginning) and will need some time at home with me to do not very much.

Having had endless problems with nursery provision I've also lost faith in this kind of childcare: too much concern to maximise profit, too little concern for the needs of the individaul child, whatever their publicity blurb may say.

No help to you I know but maybe it helps to know you're not alone!

Tom

Have you looked on the childcare link website? It will give you details regarding various childcare providers in your area.

www.childcarelink.gov.uk

Good luck

Tom I know exactly what you mean! It all seems so impossible. My kids have a nnay at teh moment - very expensive but our best option. Come January next year (yes I'm worried already) the older one will be in school so, what do we do. The younger one will still need full time care, the older one will need after school and holiday care and I have rung nearly all the local childminders and they say they are full - ALREADY! Nurserys don't work for 5 yr olds and I feel uneasy about throwing such a little girl into a holiday scheme full time, with new people she doesn't know!

My friend, a single mum, is also in the same position, and we are trying to see if anything can be done for our two term time, but holidays don't bear thinking about.

My ideal would be to keep the nanny, but we just cannot afford it, and I can't find someone who wants a nanny share (another ideal). Best case will be a childminder who can take the 2 yr old full time and teh older one after school and holidays, but this will cost almost as much as teh nanny!

Do you know any nice students who could look after your son from your home? Take him to the park etc, make him lunch? Do you have a local toyshop or somewhere there are ads - I sometimes see au pairs who want to work over the summer. I know, it is useless. My ds has a nannyshare at the moment, I too am self-employed and work from home so will be facing the same dilemma in a couple of years and already worrying about it. Am seriously thinking of moving to a 4bed house further out in S London (hard to find a cheaper area than our pocket of SE London though!) in order to have an aupair - or converting our cellar into a bedsit for same. It all seems so stressful.

My solution to this problem, which I've been pondering since DS was born (now 2.5), is that I have no option but to become a teacher. Am starting my PGCE in September.

Not everyone's cup of tea, I think, but the only solution for me.

Aloha, I bet my bit of SE London is cheaper than yours...I too am planning to shift my pattern from four days to five shortish ones once both kids are at school, but till then I can't see any alternative to keeping childminding going (and considering one child isn't even born yet we're talking a long way ahead); my excellent childminder, though, does do holiday cover. On the other hand, suppose dd doesn't get into the only school CM picks up from - aaaargh!

Griffy

I'm seriously thinking of becoming a teacher as well, although obviously its a big decision to make!

My partner works shifts as a fireman and I currently work flexibly which isn't too bad, but the money is terrible and its the kind of job where, in 5 years time, I'll be doing the same thing and its a bit of a juggling act with ds.

Just wondered if anyone else had done/is teaching and whether it really is that family friendly?

Susanb, this was part of the thinking behind my starting a PGCE. Ds has started nursery and I always knew that I would want to go back out to work (as opposed to working in the house as a SAHM. The job I did before I had kids was a non started (3 hours commute for starters), so teaching seemed like a good idea. I've enjoyed this year very much. I've had a dreadful day today.... but then that comes with all jobs.

just to say to those who are worried about throwing their 5 year old in at the deep end by enrolling them for a summer holiday playscheme, it CAN work out. My oldest DS went to several playschemes at age 5/6. Mostly he enjoyed them. There was only one we both hated - but he didn't know any children there. IME As long as he had some familiar schoolfriends around he was OK. He actually liked being taken under the wing of the older children from his school. Getting to play with the older kits also upped his street cred.

IME choosing play schemes is not quite the same as choosing longer term care. Of course you want safety codes to be observed, but there is much more a sense of passing through. Your child has no time to form a deep, long term relationship with the carers, for instance. The emphasis is on fun and relaxation. As long as you are satisfied about the basics, keep things light, expect that some days your child might not like the said activity or might not get on with another, but on other days things will go swimmingly. Remind them it's only for a short time, it's great to try out all this new stuff and soon you'll be with them all day when you take your holiday.

And yes Tom, holiday care for tinies is a problem. I think you just have to keep looking around. Try private pre schools and primaries, try nurseries, try childminders. I'd say try childminders especially. Odd vacancies for a week here and there do crop up and as your son gets older the quota allowance gets easier. That makes a big difference. Keep your ear to the ground. In my area ( motherinferior I think I can beat even you on house price cheapness in SE London) there are two nurseries I know of who have just in the last months introduced holiday care for ages 2 - 5.

Failing all else, what does your employer do if you are in a situation where your normal childcare provision has failed and things are beyond your control? It's really not that different to your son being sick and you needing to take time off to look after him. If you said to your employer this is an emergency situation - which it is - would they accept this and pay you for the odd week?

And of course, remembering a long ago conversation with you, you hardly need reminding about the right to take unpaid leave for dependents.

Nice to see you back!

Sounds like we should all throw ourselves behind the Daycare Trust's campaign for decent children's centres in every neighbourhood. They're getting off the ground now, but only in Sure Start areas. The idea is to provide seamless care for kids.

I'll bear the playschemes in mind for later, tigermoth. Sorry about rant below. Hot and heavily pregnant. Skews the concentration somewhat.

Thanks for your thouhghts Tigermoth - very useful

As far as work is concerned, it's simply a matter of getting the job done - I'm practically my own boss - I have taken my boy to conferences and meetings before, but it's much harder to get things done, and, of course, a school holiday isn't an emergency (and wouldn't qualify under the terms of the Emergency time off for dependents legislation) - it's coming and we all know it.

Basic fact is that if I don't sort out some kind of childcare, my work doesn't get done. If my work doesn't get done, then I don't get paid. You can figure the rest.

I will try nurseries and child-minders though - that sounds like a good idea. But I'm still dissapointed at how ad hoc the situation is. Maybe I should move to Sweden for a couple of years!

Very interesting thread and it's nice to know it's a problem for everyone - I thought I was in the minority with no local "Grannies" to care for my Dd!.
my Dd is six, and I've used play schemes in the past. I only work 3 days. I've found two problems with them

1. the cost
2. Dd is tired from school and organised activity (she goes to after school club till 5.15pm 3 days a week) all she wants to do is chill out at home. I was wondering about "sharing care" with other mumsnetters in the area by posting on the site - what do others think?

its a good idea sonnet - but how would that work - someting like 5 people each take one day off a week or something?

and then there are the problems of i have three kids she only has one - which means i only have one extra child to looka fter but she has three!

am sure something like a local exchange of trades and skills could be set up ( lets) i have always loved the idea but in practise they dont seem to work.

so instead of charging money you charge in time and skills.
so if i value a days childminding at 10 custardo credits for one child and you value an evenening babysitting at 3 credits per child - something like that
its not compusory to buy off each other by return favour or credit if you like - husbands can be in on it and charge 30 custardo credits for fixing a washing machine or 5 custardo credits to put up a shelf. fix a car, clean the house, wash the car, read to someones child, sit with someone elses child and help them with homework, taking dogs for a walk, picking kids up from school. everything and everything could have a custaro credit

I think it's a great idea Custardo and would work for those people who don't have extended families close by ( babysitting is also a problem I have. I like the exchange of "skills and time" better than money as one of the problems I have with holiday clubs is affording them ( and babysitters!!) - but it would be a big thing for "somebody" to manage....I remember when I was young my Mum belonged to a Babysitting circle where you accrued points for sitting and lost points for using the service. Each member took a fortnightly turn to "do the book" and organsie it - mmm maybe worth considering for holiday child care??!!I may do a post and see what response I get!!

Custardo - I ment to say that I work three days so I have 2 days free - in an ideal world(!)I could meet up with a couple of other mums who work part time and sort it out that way.

I think the swapping of time and skills is a good idea - I'm a member of our local LETS scheme and use my credits to get occasional cleaning jobs done.

However I would feel very uneasy about swapping lets credits for childminding services if I didn't know the person at all. A few people offering babysitting services do advertise in the scheme but I have never been tempted to call them.

Unless the babysitter person was a friend or very well known to friends of mine, I would want them at the very least to be police checked and have 2 or 3 good references.

I think a childminding circle could work well if set up via a nursery, so mothers and children know each other already.

IMHO I think one could work via mumsnet too, but you'd have to meet up first and take things very slowly - still, what a nice excuse for a few evenings out and meeting a new bunch of parents and children

I think the swapping of time and skills is a good idea - I'm a member of our local LETS scheme and use my credits to get occasional cleaning jobs done.

However I would feel very uneasy about swapping lets credits for childminding services if I didn't know the person at all. A few people offering babysitting services do advertise in the scheme but I have never been tempted to call them.

Unless the babysitter person was a friend or very well known to friends of mine, I would want them at the very least to be police checked and have 2 or 3 good references.

I think a childminding circle could work well if set up via a nursery, so mothers and children know each other already.

IMHO I think one could work via mumsnet too, but you'd have to meet up first and take things very slowly - still, what a nice excuse for a few evenings out and meeting a new bunch of parents and children