Physician associate

[callingthetime]

I’m wondering if anybody knows a bit about the current situation with physician associates.

My brother qualified as one last year and hasn’t been able to get a job. He says this is because there just aren’t any due to some recent news events where physician associates were wrongly diagnosing etc.

However there is still one at my GP surgery, my brother does have autism so it isn’t always clear what he means!

You would think, but you're wrong.

Loads of documented evidence in the Lemg review of lapses in systems and login restrictions, pre signed request forms etc.

Thats not worrying, whats worrying is there are people doing this, who know they shouldn't be, and are unregulated, so there's no comeback when they get caught out.

I think it makes sense to have someone who is trained to do the work that a PA does in the states and even more so here when we don't have enough doctors. However it doesn't make sense to have them stand in for GPs nominally supervised by one central GP who is supervising lots of other PAs and is not even on site. That was never supposed to be the role of a PA and is highly inappropriate. That's an abuse of the role by unregulated private businesses.

It's worth bearing in mind that PAs will make all the same mistakes that overworked GPs do. I have sat in front of trainee GPs googling PMT (was offered diazepam) and have been told I couldn't get pregnant because I was breastfeeding. No one intervened. If this had come from a PA, we'd assume it was because they are a PA.

Worth remembering that a PA could well have been a very talented nurse or have a PhD in science previously which would in some circumstances be an advantage. And some nurses are working GP shifts for GP wages already.

They are not covering the 'medical curriculum '

Have you looked at what is covered? It's less detailed than GCSE biology

My 10 year old could answer some questions in the national qualifying exam FFS

Yes we all love 'trained in the medical model's 😂😂😂

It's absolute garbage!

Take the same candidates and get them to train in medicine instead, now that'd be fine, and safe for patients

Anything else is just unacceptable and unsafe

Stop chatting nonsense . Anyone can get onto that course with any degree . PAs do NOT study medicine and are not medically trained /qualified . To even think that they are? Means that you’re not using your brain to think logically . The Judge confirmed it this week in the BMA vs GMC case.

Does anyone have an update on the Leng review and what is expected to be said about PAs? I am a current student, and I am considering leaving the course to pursue a career in medicine instead.

I'd just do it - it feels like PA is half dead with no career progression

PA has no future. FOI requests show that lots of PAs previously failed to get into med school. If you're academic enough, go for it.

Hello . A lot has happened recently . Prof Leng has released the webinars that she held with various staff groups and they are very telling . I will post a link below.
The government/Leng have Also strategically ‘ leaked ‘ that the PA title will most likely change to ASSISTANT due to patients misidentifying them as drs . This puts the blame on patients but ignores the real reason which is PA obfuscation . They deliberately don’t tell patients that they’re not drs and say vague things such as ‘ I’m part of. The medical team, or don’t tell patients at all.
Also day 3 of the AU/Chesterton’s vs GMC court case will be on Monday. Im attending so I will give you some Inside feedback of what I hear.

My advice to you is , please leave this course and go and study medicine . Med is not in the best shape right now , but at least you will be SAFE and medically qualified.

Thank you everyone for the advice, also I would appreciate that on Monday . I have just completed my exams as a PA student, but I think I’m 100% certain I’m going to do medicine instead and not continue with second year .

my university it’s self is not even convinced about the course and was suggesting alternatives to students such as the Aldi Graduate Program but is still continuing to take on more students for the 2025 😂. Whilst being on placement, many doctors were not happy with the role and PAs them self told me to leave the course ..

I think the PA role is too highly paid for what they will eventually do. This will be the eventual death knell of the idea. The PA roles are paid at Band 7 without evening rotas or weekend and this outlay buys a great deal of highly qualified nurse and/or a fully trained doctor with post qualification training - for the same money.
PAs positions only work now because of hyper rotation in resident doctor training. Sadly departments now overlook the needs of doctors in training, giving procedures instead to PAs, prioritising cases in favour of PAs as they will stay post in the dept, post the 3/4 month move forced upon doctors in training.
Neither nurses nor doctors feel PAs are worth what they are paid as they can only work under supervision and in very limited circumstances. The PA education is very limited v a nurse doctor paramedic ANP etc. and they will always be limited. Eventually PA roles will become doctor’s assistant roles - running to fetch labs, scribe, chase pharmacy orders etc. They should be banded at grade 3/4.
If you can OP train to become a doctor or nurse. Both are well respected fields with decent advancement pathways and scope of practice. Also you will be able to work in any department,

@Bourbonbonbon We have plenty of doctors here. Many UK trained current doctors are unemployed. Medicine is no longer a guaranteed role. Plenty of newly qualified UK trained F2 doctors do not have a role to go to in August.
PAs were a way to fill rotas without employing doctors.

Thank you for the update. I'm glad to see things seem to be moving in the right direction.

Apart from the PAs themselves, which organisations/groups are still in favour of them?

Still feeling thankful that DD's interview for the PA course was unsuccessful. She is now doing a post grad degree in another (very much in demand) healthcare role and is really enjoying it.

Here are the links
the webinars
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvaBZskxS7tzinI--pvzgq3mNWUaeQiMm&si=uLidOgZfMdEXl5US

Title change

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jun/04/physician-associates-to-be-renamed-to-stop-them-being-mistaken-for-doctors

AU/Chesterton vs GMC court case

https://anaesthetistsunited.com/details-of-the-hearing/

Sorry I forgot ! If you click on the link above it has all the details for the court case . You can sign up to join the live link so you can watch the court proceedings yourself. Better than hearing it second hand from me

I was in court yesterday . It didn’t go well for the GMC barrister . He basically argued for deregulation of medicine . We should allow PAs to do whatever they want because it would harm their job opportunities if we don’t . The judge asked him how was a supervisor to know the competencies of a PA and what they’re capable of ? He replied …. Ask them or get references from their previous employer 😅 . In the middle of seeing a patient . Absolute joke .