Physician associate

[callingthetime]

I’m wondering if anybody knows a bit about the current situation with physician associates.

My brother qualified as one last year and hasn’t been able to get a job. He says this is because there just aren’t any due to some recent news events where physician associates were wrongly diagnosing etc.

However there is still one at my GP surgery, my brother does have autism so it isn’t always clear what he means!

It’s a 2 yr postgrad or 4 year undergrad . PAs have got onto the post grad course with previous degrees in English Lit , Chemistry, events management, zoology , animal behaviour, law, art , sculpture… anything goes
none of the courses have been accredited by the GMC .

This. Hospitals are still hiring them because they are cheaper but for a reason hence the backlash. I had a big issue with a PA and refuse to be seen by one again.

Oh mine sounds so similar! I had a chest infection at 30 weeks pregnant. I was told that I was anxious, and the sillly woman started googleing pregnancy mindfulness excercises.

I ended up going to A&E who gave me antibiotics, which was a huge waste of NHS resources.

Where is your evidence for PAs requesting/prescribing ionising radiation? How would that be possible? I work with PAs and know a few socially - this is literally impossible on the NHS systems they use (both primary and secondary care), in the same way that it would be literally impossible for them to prescribe anything else. I suspect you know that already though...

We have them in the surgery I work in. In our group of surgeries I think there’s about 6.

I had a terrible experience with a PA at my GP surgery. It's well known he's made a catalogue of serious errors. Anyone who rings for an appointment is offered a same-day appointment with him and anyone who's had any contact with him previously says no. I don't think it looks hopeful for your brother, OP. I second comments about HCA roles and I would recommend your brother seeks careers advice to think about transferable skills.

If you don’t know about this then you clearly aren’t as clued up as you think you are . Multiple FOIs have revealed this from many Trusts including Calderdale , Lewisham , Leeds , and many more.

Latest news in the court case . anaesthetistsunited.com/legal-update-pa-safety-data-is-admissible-in-court/

The role as currently used is dangerous, he should expect to step back to an assistant role at about band 4, or train for something else. PAs have been sold a lie and I'd love to see class action against the universities.

Lots of FOIs have found this.

A bit true and a bit wrong. You can’t use ARRS funding to simply “hire another GP” the reimbursement scheme doesn’t work that way at all.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience butI mean you could say the same thing about the shit doctor at the surgery too, (they all have one let’s face it) or a nurse who is poor at her job. Yes PA’s need more training in my opinion and things need tightening up for sure, probably adapting what they can deal with but you can’t label them all with being dangerous or useless as some have such good backgrounds they are a great addition.

You absolutely can . GPs have now been included in the new ARRS contract and they GPs are now getting the correct pay. (They weren’t before ) Conditions are that they have to be under 2 yrs qualified . This is a new development announced by the government recently .

Well you can when they’ve all only had a 2 year university training course. Which as a HCP myself I’d say is seriously insufficient. Sure, maybe by the time a PA has been doing the job 5 plus years they may be ok but you can’t exactly ask for a CV prior to an appointment with one. Nurses and doctors both have much longer pre registration and post registration training before being given such responsibility.

Ah that's how Starmer has announced hiring 1500 GPs.

They have allowed surgeries to hire who they want - actual GPs - instead of limiting them to people they variably wanted (ACPs, paramedics) and now don't want at all (PAs).

You can. There is no evidence that they’re safe . Plenty evidence of harm . Most don’t have previous healthcare experience. Only 8-11% come from nursing backgrounds. Some have done geography , history , art , zoology degrees . There is no standardisation of the courses and none are accredited by the GMC . 6 unis have seen sense and closed their courses for 2025 . The rest should follow immediately. papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5120160

You can now.

The resident doctor arm of the BMA is largely controlled by faction called Doctors Vote. Typically DV adherents want full pay restoration, restriction on the number of international medical graduates and abolition or v tight control of PA roles. I’m afraid your poor brother is going to continue to find doors shut. He should retrain.

It's brilliant that PAs are (hopefully) being phased out but sad for people who went into it with good intentions. Having done the course I hope your brother can find another health care role that contributes positively to patient safety.

There are 53 masters degrees for PAs just now

https://www.findamasters.com/masters-degrees/physician-associate

The universities won’t care in the slightest about job prospects or future careers.

As long as people keep paying tuition fees they will run the course until told not to run it or until people stop signing up.

universities are a business and it’s all about the income.

Ish! Theres strict guidelines around it such as never been a salaried GP before, lower pay too due to on costs being included etc etc so like I said not as simple as employing just another GP!

Yes, but any GP is worth vastly more than a PA and doesn't cost that much more.

of course it is but they cost substantially more actually and it’s for the PCN to bear any increase in funds to match what other GP’s are paid for the same level as they cannot use ARRS funding for cross-subsidisation between roles. It’s more complex than you think.

If there’s a choice between a PA and a GP through ARRS ? The choice will always be a GP. Safer, more efficient and there is no risk of being sued by a PA for following RCGP guidance or being sued by patients when harm occurs due to NOT following RCGP guidance . UMAPs have done more damage to the PA cause than any doctor could . www.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/jobadvert/A2700-25-0015?keyword=ARRS%20gp&language=en