Physician associate

[callingthetime]

I’m wondering if anybody knows a bit about the current situation with physician associates.

My brother qualified as one last year and hasn’t been able to get a job. He says this is because there just aren’t any due to some recent news events where physician associates were wrongly diagnosing etc.

However there is still one at my GP surgery, my brother does have autism so it isn’t always clear what he means!

Some of those have closed . Like Leeds for example . Of course the want money so they’ll tell students what they want to hear . None of the courses have been accredited by the GMC . It’s over for this ‘ profession’. Can’t wait to see this played out in court next month . The GMC don’t care about patient safety .

I understand the complexity but all the partners I know are getting shot of PAs as quickly as possible. Let's face it, even 3 or 4 sessions of GP time is much more useful than a full time PA.

Exactly . Why would a GP want to double their work by using a PA . To be safe , every single patient needs to be reviewed again by the GP . A waste of time and money .
There is no role for them in GP . They should never be put in a position to diagnose undifferentiated patients and I’m glad that they’re being phased out .

Unfortunately PA "training" doesnt make them the equivalent of a junior doctor. It's 2 years instead of 5 or 6. They are not fit for much. Very unfortunate for the people who have been "trained" but safer for patients if they do something else.

He'll really need to look at something like an apprentice paramedic training or HCA job - because if he finds any NHS work and shows he can do it well he may stand a chance of one of the few remaining PA jobs.

Folks , please donate . This is what the GMC - yes the body meant to protect the public , are doing to frustrate the legal case against them by the family of Emily Chesterton and Anaesthetists United . They don’t want the coroners scathing section 28 report on the death of Pamela Marking to be included , neither the evidence by Professor Trish Greenhalgh which is a study of all the U.K. evidence of PAs being safe- (she couldn’t find any evidence that they are .)
Conveniently they removed themselves from X yesterday before this latest development was revealed . Donate to hold them to account . It’s a crying shame that the people fighting to keep patients safe have to rely on crowdfunding when the GMC legal fees are paid for by US the taxpayers ! anaesthetistsunited.com/legal-update-pa-safety-data-is-admissible-in-court/

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Pamela-Marking-Prevention-of-Future-Deaths-Report-2025-0107.pdf

imagine not wanting the judge to consider this - in a court case about PA safety. Are GMC REALLY there to protect the public ?

Incorrect. It is medical training compacted into 2 years instead of 4. A huge amount of medical training is science and maths unrelated to doing the actual job. Physicians associate training courses are more competitive then any medical school in the UK now for that reason.

Absolutely ridiculous. Clearly @ToeSucker is not a doctor and hasn't done a medical degree! Utterly impossible to adequately compress the work of 4-6 years into 2 years, especially without the basis of biochemistry, pathology, physiology and anatomy that medical students have!

Don’t you think if it was possible to adequately compress 5 years of med school into 2 years then universities would be doing this for standard medical degrees? Unrelated science and Maths? Med Students are hardly studying trigonometry or quantum physics! obviously medical calculations are necessary as is a&p and pharmacology. It’s more of a concern if PAs aren’t being taught this!

Evidently it is possible if the PA courses are covering medical curriculum in 2 years. The system needs to get with the times. Universities also making a lot of money off training medical students, up to £250000 a year so they will not be in a rush to lose that revenue

But they’re not covering the medical curriculum in that time. That’s the whole point and it’s crazy you can’t see the difference! 🙈. They’re covering a very different curriculum for a very different job. Do you really think a PA is as well trained as a doctor? Hilarious 🤣🤣🤣

Universities also making a lot of money off training medical students, up to £250000 a year so they will not be in a rush to lose that revenue

do you actually know what body validates medical degrees? The length of the course is not determined by the universities. Your ignorance is obvious.

https://seschoolofpas.org/physician-associate-info/what-is-a-physician-associate/
trained to the medical model

Oh my dear. Medical model is not medical curriculum, which is what you said. 😁. They’re covering mean very different things.

The 2 year course is postgraduate. So you still have to do a 3 year degree in a bio-science related subject before you’re eligible to do a PA course. So 5 years in total. I really hate the PA bashing, someone really close to me is one and they’re fantastic. Providing life saving and critical treatment in A&E, constantly doing additional training and gaining skills and knowledge. The bullying internally and the slating by patients is disgusting. PAs are required to perform certain procedures with the supervision of senior doctors but the stories people hear in the media of mistakes being made are due to NHS failures to provide that supervision in the first place and forcing PAs in to situations without adequate support from seniors which is a systemic problem, not an issue with the person in front of you, or the fact that the role is any less than what it’s designed to do. The US healthcare centres have successfully deployed PAs and it works fantastically over there, it’s just in the UK we seem to be unable to run a hospital or GP practice adequately.

The meaning of "bioscience" is very broad. PAs have been accepted on to courses with degrees in homeopathic medicine, computing, English literature, history, and geography.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20240331/281844353644642?srsltid=AfmBOorjMYiRWH4xx6fL24L4YSBqcXWs5TEbj5tbyWYzG2sp-5EcjGSe

It is not "PA bashing" to point out that underqualified and inadequately supervised staff are treating patients, often independently. It is a patient safety issue.

I have worked with some great PAs - and some terrifying ones. I feel sorry for the PAs who have been sold the doctor-lite dream and are really stuck now.

Completely agree. The lack of knowledge (and sadly insight) in many PAs is disturbing (and to be fair frustrating to resident doctor colleagues who are being paid less than them to supervise and teach them but also being told that they are just as experienced as them.) You simply can't cover the medical curriculum in 2 years (anyone who thinks so clearly does not know what they are talking about) - already medical students are doing at least 4-6 years of full time study (sadly not the long holidays of most students, in lectures/seminars/placement 9-5 every day).

Yes, I got accepted onto a PA course without a bioscience type degree. Admittedly ten years or so ago. I turned it down as I decided it was slightly bonkers and concerned about patient safety, job prospects, etc.

You've been taken in by the sales pitch and PA PR. Use some critical thinking.

Very classist group on Mumsnet

All classes of people are entitled to appropriate medical care by appropriately qualified people. Do you disagree?

I don’t understand the classist comment at all. People from all classes can become doctors surely?

HCPs are as vulnerable to mental illness as anyone else. Lumping unclear with what he means along with low self esteem is absolutely ridiculous. It's unclear what you're trying to achieve other than make the op feel awful.

Do you really think people are concerned about what "class" a doctor is anymore? This isn't the 19th century. I think pretty much everyone does want care from a properly trained and regulated person though and there is plenty of evidence the whole PA model falls short of that, in the UK at least.

It helps to be succesful when the pass rate for the exam is 100%....