Physician associate

[callingthetime]

I’m wondering if anybody knows a bit about the current situation with physician associates.

My brother qualified as one last year and hasn’t been able to get a job. He says this is because there just aren’t any due to some recent news events where physician associates were wrongly diagnosing etc.

However there is still one at my GP surgery, my brother does have autism so it isn’t always clear what he means!

I don’t think that is a sensible choice. Either become a dr or become a nurse prescriber instead.

OP, I’ve heard similiar stories as your brother.

He is not a failure. He's still done the training. I agree that it could be much harder for him to get a job just now. But on the positive side he's less likely to be left swinging doing an inappropriate job with inadequate supervision where he could end up killing someone in a really predictable way.

If I were him I'd sign up with NHS Professionals and yes, work as an HCA or perhaps a discharge coordinator on a ward or department he's interested in, to make contacts - all the more so as I'd guess as he's autistic he might find interviews extra challenging; if he gets to know ward teams, I should think that it would be helpful when a PA job comes up. Ironically, the more specialist the team, the better I would have thought - PAs doing very specialist, well defined tasks on highly selected groups of patients are IMO much the safest roles for them.

Why?! Most of the replies are saying the profession is on very shaky ground.

FWIW I work at a uni, we offer this course and it's a 2 yr MSc so you would be looking at over 20 grand to do it.

Is it like a post-grad? In addition to your main degree? Which, I'd assume, to be science or health-care based?

Sorry, I did the obvious thing and googled the answer.

The climate for PA's at the moment is very uncertain. The British Medical Association (BMA) have campaigned against the PA role for some valid (and invalid, in my opinion) reasons. Unfortunately, a lot of royal colleges have taken their lead. As others have said, their main argument is that PA'S are more unsafe than doctors and nurses and quoting the very unfortunate and sad case of Emily Chesterton. Although, there have been GP's who have made the same mistake as that PA but does not seem to gain the same traction as this individual case. The government are currently researching the statistics around PA's and patient safety. Additionally, the GMC are in the process of now registering all PA's. As such, employers are hesitant to employ PA's until things settle down and the role becomes clearer. I am unsure how long this will take.

I'm an rgn it sounds interesting that's all.

There are 6 deaths due to PAs that have been made public , one lifelong Injury to a newborn , 3 coroners section 28 reports . Pamela Markings case is the latest one being publicised . The coroner was spot on with her analysis of the situation and the high risk of future deaths if something isn’t done regarding her concerns .
There was a court case BMA vs GMC 2 months ago , the decision on that will be out soon .

The Chesterton family and AnaesthetistsUnited are taking the GMC to court in May because the GMC refuse to actually regulate PAs properly and set a National scope . Almost all the royal colleges have either said that there is no role for PAs in their specialities or severely restricted scope .
The BMA have just released a dossier of 600 cases of serious harm by PAs .
The Leng review will report in June . Prof Leng has said that both the words ‘ physician’ and ‘ associate ‘ are confusing to patients and she is likely to recommend a change in title . Greedy unis are still taking on students for 2025 even though none of the courses have been accredited by the GMC . GMC have only registered 1800 out of 5000 PAs so we have 3000 unregistered PAs working in the NHS - really dangerous.
il stop there . Your brother should re-train to do something else . There’s no future in the PA role as it is now .

He’s right . The RCGP and BMAGP have now updated their guidance to say that there is NO ROLE for PAs in GP . The PA at your Gp surgery will be phased out either by not renewing their contract or redundancy. RCGP have issued guidance as to what PAs can and can’t do . It’s severely restrictive and not cost effective . GPs will just use ARRS funding to hire a GP instead .

It is a two year post grad degree. DD applied for this after getting a first class degree in biomedical sciences. Fortunately for her she was unsuccessful. She is now studying a masters in diagnostic radiography and loving it.

I feel that she had dodged a bullet by not going down the PA route especially after reading so much negative stuff in the press about it.

OP, there are a few (only a very few) PA jobs advertised on NHS jobs (i.e. where almost all roles are advertised) at the moment.
Your brother is not a failure if he doesn't get a PA job. He has been badly let down by a healthcare system that imported the PA role from the US (a completely different healthcare system) without any proper planning, regulation or setting of scope. At the time he started his training, there would have been loads of jobs. The future of the role is very unclear.

Can you tell us more about how your brother ended up on a PA training course?

It’s a bit boggling that someone who can’t sort out his own employment would have passed a course in which you need to demonstrate the capacity to make largely independent and high stakes socio-medical decisions.

I’m not 100% sold on the concept of PAs, and I worry they are prone to changes in the political headwinds.

I’d imagine, for example, that labour would not be keen on what is essentially seen as dumbing down the medical profession. What do you think, OP?? Do you this could pose a risk to your brother’s career?

@Gattopardo i think the OP thought that her brother was wrong about the job situation whereas he was actually spot on - the problem is not that he is autistic - the problem is the PA role.

btw, there are lots of highly successful doctors with ASD.

Yes @Newmeagain i agree. I am one such autistic doctor albeit I left the profession for unconnected reasons, and joined the civil service. I still feel like I have skin in the game, though still.

I’m very sorry for anyone who graduates and can’t find a job - it’s brutal out there.

OP how was your brother’s work history before this and what do you think he is going to do now??

Here’s a link to the upcoming court case on May the 13-14th . Anaesthetist United are working hard to keep patients safe . Many PAs either hide their name badges/lanyards to deceive patients into thinking that they’ve seen a doctor . The patient trusts the diagnosis /treatment plan because they’ve seen a ‘ dr ‘ but then it turns out to be a PA . Pts being denied the right to informed consent . When things go wrong ? PAs aren’t held accountable , neither is the supervising dr to be honest . It’s all a big mess .
Theyre also prescribing and requesting ionising radiation . This is illegal .

sorry the link is here anaesthetistsunited.com/doctor-replacement-in-gp/

I’m really torn. A former colleague worked in the US for a number of years, and it’s a core function there, moreso in hospitals but also remote clinics where there is a one person GP service. What they describe sounded like it worked really well and didn’t seem to have the issues described here. I would have been happy to work with them in the way they described but not in the way people describe here.

What BeachRide said.

Having had a truly terrible experience with a PA, I’m sorry for your brother’s sake to say that I’m glad this backlash is happening.

Ditto. The one I saw specialised in the musculoskeletal system and tried to fit that as a diagnosis when I was having frequent headaches, sending me Amazon links and links to his YouTube physio videos! I knew it wasn’t that and more likely hormonal (am late 40’s). His consultation skills were terrible, just typing up the whole time and not listening adequately. I will be glad if they are abolished.

Some serious cover ups going on . This can’t continue https://x.com/mike88881221/status/1907313633811370291?s=46

The coroner said it all . https://www.judiciary.uk/prevention-of-future-death-reports/pamela-marking-prevention-of-future-deaths-report/

I was offered a place on a PA course about ten years ago and turned it down as I suspected something like this would happen in the future. I think PAs as a role will die off. I genuinely don’t see the benefit of them over a nurse prescriber.

And don’t even look up Anaesthesia Associates unless you want to get really angry . x.com/caesarnots96696/status/1908589905719984202?s=46

I agree. If he cannot even navigate applying for jobs I certainly do not want him to be treating me.

Not that I would accept treatment from PA anyway as they are largely no more qualified than I am.