Physician associate

[callingthetime]

I’m wondering if anybody knows a bit about the current situation with physician associates.

My brother qualified as one last year and hasn’t been able to get a job. He says this is because there just aren’t any due to some recent news events where physician associates were wrongly diagnosing etc.

However there is still one at my GP surgery, my brother does have autism so it isn’t always clear what he means!

if he’s just applying to work in general practice he may not get a suitable role. Is he picking up shifts in a hospital at all atm?

https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/gps-vote-in-favour-of-phasing-out-physician-associate-role-in-general-practice#:~:text=GPs%20vote%20in%20favour%20of%20phasing%20out%20physician%20associate%20role%20in%20general%20practice,-by%20BMA%20media&text=The%20BMA's%20General%20Practitioners%20Committee,roles%20to%20be%20phased%20out.

Hi - can he pick up roles in hospitals? Is this possible as bank work or is it applying through advertised roles? He says there aren’t any roles advertised but he may not fully understand.

There is currently a massive backlash going on about physician associates.

They were massively backed by the NHS at the expense of nurse and doctor jobs.

However the medicolegal situation is very unclear and they have gone from being a great source of labour to a potential financial disaster for employing trusts.

Thanks. Is his qualification pretty much worthless now, as things stand?

He might be better looking at picking up bank HCA shifts tbh.

Thanks.he does have depression and the work situation is adding to it but because there’s a lot of very black and white thinking he seems to think if he isn’t working as a pa he is a failure.

Unfortunately he's being hit by the double whammy of an NHS hiring freeze, and a reduction in hiring PAs specifically.

Until recently GP surgeries were hiring them in preference to actual GPs as they were being given funding to hire anybody but doctors. Now the medicolegal situation for PAs has changed dramatically and if you have to supervise everything they do, they don't look so good value for money.

Those in post (such as the one at your GP surgery) are OK, but the number of new posts will have shrunk.

Neither of these things are your brother's fault, it's just incredibly poor timing for him.

Has he tried looking for locum work? There are definitely agencies out there recruiting PAs and having any work, it the career he's qualified in, would do a lot for his mood and self esteem.

Has he contacted his local hospital and gp practices to enquire ?

I really don't think that is the correct role for him. I would not be happy with that as a patient. He should definitely look at furthering his qualifications such as maybe medical imaging etc.

The last thing he needs is further qualifications! What he needs is a job!

Has he registered with any PA agencies as suggested above?

I don’t believe he has. Can you do so if you have never actually worked as a PA?

Autism, depression, low self-esteem, unclear what he means at times. Do you think he'd be a good PA?

theres an abundance of PA jobs in medical wards or A&E in my experience (whether that’s good or not I wouldn’t like to comment). I’d be concerned though that someone skilled and trained to the “equivalent of an f1/2” which is what PAs compare themselves to, can’t fathom out how to get a job…..

he needs to look at trac jobs, TempRE agency and NHS bank for all local trusts and GPs to find out what opportunities there are. Often hospitals have big recruitment days for all sorts of clinical roles, he should look at the career pages and see if anything’s coming up and register for them.

from April you’ll probably see a tonne of roles advertised, it’s end of financial year and a recruitment ban/ban on locum/bank spend at the moment, staffing is horrific because of it.

in my last trust we had at least 15 PAs that I can think of off the top of my head across medical wards and ED. One very experienced one was even performing endoscopy which blows my mind.

well done to your brother for completing the course.

Also he could also contact medical staffing departments for any local hospitals and ask about upcoming vacancies, posts or recruitment drives. Or speak to the uni he graduated from and ask for their support.

That’s not what my post is about to be fair, but also to be fair it autism, depression and low self esteem are barriers to work a lot more people would be unemployed. I don’t know the first thing about it, just asking on here. Ultimately if he gets an interview it’s up to them if he’s offered the post or not.

Thanks so much @Catsonskis , that’s very helpful.

Really difficult time for PAs and prospective PAs atm unfortunately. He may need to relocate for work if he's serious about working as a PA as there's very few jobs around atm and competition is fierce.

Could he work at a HCA to gain clinical experience while looking at PA roles.

I looked at this role recently as I am a nurse. Don't you go to uni for 2 or 3 years to get this job and have had have a science background already. Maybe try hca

He is trained as a PA; that’s what the post is about.

I understand that that's not what I asked. I asked about the training for this role as I was interested init as from what I read the pay is really good.

How.long is the training and isit via University I am interested in it myself.

I don’t know - I’m not a PA. I imagine so probably, yes.brother did two years.

@callingthetime the BMA voted last year to phase out use of PAs in General Practice. I understand that a number of cases are being taken to employment tribunal, but the situation seems to be that PA roles in GP practices will be very thin on the ground. The situation in hospital care may be different but I know that there is a lot of concern around whether patients are always aware that a PA isn't a Dr etc. None of which is your brother's fault obviously, but I suspect he may need to look at alternative jobs at least for now.

I understand that that's not what I asked. I asked about the training for this role as I was interested init as from what I read the pay is really good.

Yes, it's a 2 year degree, and is paid as a band 7

Now would be a very bad time to choose this career as the future is pretty uncertain

They were trained to be cheap doctors, hence the "trained to F1/F2 level" label. However, it takes at least 5 years of med school to be an F1 so how they figure 2 years of PA training (which I have experience of, it's nothing like as rigorous as med school), is going to achieve that, I've no idea

They are useful additions to a health care team, but they are very much not junior doctors. Once the government stop trying to shoehorn them into a role they're not trained for and find them a role they can do safely, things will settle down for them and trusts will start hiring again