Son off sick 3 times in 12 months (6 days total) now has disciplinary meeting.

[Charlysunnysky]

My son is 23 and has additional needs - he stammers severely.
He has worked for 3.5 years at a budget supermarket chain as an online picker.
He is contracted to 7.5 hrs which is the standard, but they only use him for 8-12 hrs so he’s been looking for a new job as it’s min wage and not much to get by on, though he lives at home. He’s been trying to get another job for a few months now, as they’re only using him for 8 -12 hrs each week. But he’s struggling, because nobody will take him on after the interview, as his stammer is quite obstructive during interview.
He got a letter this morning - a new manager started on Monday -she may have been reviewing this and come across it or may have been tipped of by the outgoing manager.
He’s hit the triggers for disciplinary with 3 occasions of sickness absence over a rolling 12 months, even though they total only 6 days. But he doesn’t recall a proper back to work meeting on each occasion, just a foot in the manager’s office confirming he’s okay to return. He’s not aware of any minutes being taken, and no warning he was close to trigger points.

I’ve offered to attend with him but he’s not sure if it looks terrible, taking his mum. I think it might make them tread more carefully, knowing he has a witness, but again, I don't want colleagues seeing him go in with his mum either. I don’t know if there’s other performance-related stuff but surely they would mention those in the letter so he can prepare?
What do you think?

No, you shouldn't go with him, but encourage him to ask a workmate to sit in with him.

Why is he off sick so much.

Did you mean he is contracted 37.5?

It’s just their internal policies on sickness, nothing to do with anyone tipping anyone off or anything untoward.

He should have access to the standard sickness policies? Can he check them before the meeting so he knows what they’ll be talking about.

He won’t have had a pre warning, because the policies will be in his contract and this is the notification he’s hit a limit.

No don’t go with him, but a colleague could?

I wouldn’t worry, it’ll be a standard meeting to say this sickness has been noted, probably ask if there’s any ongoing health issues he needs help with and make sure he knows what might happen if these sickness levels continue.

To my dying day I'll never understand how being sick can trigger a disciplinary process. Total madness. If you're sick, you're sick. If prolonged illness is na issue, there are mechanisms to address that. If you think someone is lying, you can address that. But being off sick more than x days being a disciplinary process makes no fucking sense at all..

Sorry OP. Not helpful. Just baffles me.

It's a lot of sickness. It's probably in his contract what their policies are.

Please don't go with him. I get as a SN parent we want to mama bear them a bit during adulthood, but they really need to navigate life and learn like everyone else. Just be supportive and reassure him it's probably standard.

Retail sickness/absence policies are strict ime, so don't think there's anything sinister going on. They have to do it. I used to work in a big branch of Boots years ago and they wanted weeping apologies if you took a single day off. They'd interview you and you had to say how you knew you'd affected your colleagues by not coming in etc etc. Weirdos

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about the disciplinary but would get him to ask a colleague to come with him.

Advise him to get out of retail if possible too (imho).

So you should just be able to go off sick as many times as you like without recourse?

Any absence review should include support and advice to stop someone getting sick so frequently. It is also to deter people from calling off because they're not feeling great - but in reality are fit to work.

Frequent sickness needs to be address as it impacts the individual and the rest of their team.

It would be completely inappropriate for you to attend, and you probably wouldn't be permitted anyway. It tends to be either colleagues or union reps you are able to invite.

I would reassure your son that this is unlikely to be serious. He will be able to read his work place policy about attendance and it will let him know the process.

I work in a different setting but , as an example, he would have hit a trigger point for my employer too, and it would mean a meeting with a line manager and an agreement to improve attendance over the next 8 weeks with no further action.
Hope that's helpful.

That's not what I said. If someone is frequently sick then it's an Occupational health matter, or potentially disability. There are a range of options depending on what they're off sick (or claiming to be off sick with).

My point is that it's not a DISCIPLINARY matter.

It makes no sense to discipline someone for being sick.

@Fitzcarraldo353 it falls within the disciplinary process, because it could lead to further action if improvement isn't seen.

But the first meeting, which this would be you're just asked to improve your absence over a set time period.

Again how do you do that? I'll just not get the flu again. Or not get a vomiting bug. It makes no logical sense. How do you give people sickness targets for improvement. You're actually articulating exactly what I find confusing and amusing about it.

Every case is treated individually. Of course, if you are unlucky enough to have several illnesses in a short space of time which make it impossible for you to work, then work can show compassion.
First priority is to find out why someone is so run down that they are getting sick so often.
Second is to protect the business.

And unfortunately, all process have to be set to the worst of us all. And there are plenty who just call out because they can't be bothered.

The process, applied correctly, gets rid of anyone taking the piss and supports anyone with a genuine need.

I'm not clear on what you think should happen if someone has been sick enough to be off work 3 times in a year. That is higher than average.

Its a perfectly normal policy. We have the same one in the NHS, if we go over the sickness limit then we go to stage 1 sickness meeting. It's stages 1 to 4.
It isn't a disciplinary meeting, its to find out what if anything he needs help with and can they do anything for him. He he goes over 4 then it might be a problem but not always.
I've just had a year off with orthopaedic problems and didn't even get to stage 1 because it was all documented by the GP and considered reasonable sickness.
They tend to view odd days off as suspicious.

Is he a member of a union?

But he’s struggling, because nobody will take him on after the interview, as his stammer is quite obstructive during interview.

He needs to apply somewhere that actually has and adheres to an inclusion and diversity policy - has he tried larger companies? Where I work, they make a very conscious effort to support conditions like stammering in an interview.

Can you confirm how many shifts he's missed? As if he's only working 8-12 hours a week then 6 days is actually quite a lot.

I trigger sickness frequently, it's really awful and the stress of not getting ill I'm sure contributes to more sickness! Does he have an underlying condition/disability that means he's more prone to getting ill?

If not they'll likely ask if there's anything that's triggering him, likely refer to OH and say if he has any further absences within x period he moves up the disciplinary process (at my work the stage he's at would be informal and further sickness would move him to formal).

It's a standard policy.
I was sick in Dec with dizziness and then got the flu within a two week period- dizziness was obviously me coming down with the flu.
Just had another dose of flu during my A/l and I'm just looking if it's worth the stage 1 to claim my holiday back or not.

I agree for the average person it's a bit OTT but something has to trigger a check in.

We have so many staff member who are always sick, will be 'sick the day before at after A/L. There are people who take the piss.

If someone is repeatedly getting bugs and flus, it's a possible indication that they need to improve their general health.

Let me give you a practical example - I used to work at a video games company. Shift work, around the clock. Majority of support staff were young, mostly lads, living away from home for the first time. They lived on microwave meals, kebab vans, red bull and sweets.

Loads of sickness, predicably. When people set the the sickness alarms off (usually due to repeated short absences) the meetings were based around giving them advice on how to live more healthily. Making sure they were using the free gym membership we paid for them, making sure they knew about things like our free bike maintenance & repairs scheme so they could cycle to work, or salary sacrifice to get a bike etc.

If someone is genuinely ill, under Drs care etc that's a different story and you'd make adjustments like increasing/ignoring trigger levels. But if someone is constantly having a day on the sick because they're living off pints and burgers and not doing anything about it, then yes, it's a disciplinary issue.

We'd also have the really stupid ones who'd call in sick with a 'bug' after every night out, while Facebook was plastered full of pics of them doing shots until 6am 😅 Again - Disciplinary issue.

Unfortunately frequent illness is not always a simple matter of someone being 'run down'. If that's really what you think, I suggest you educate yourself on chronic illness.

An employer would be aware of a chronic illness that caused frequent absences though.

Especially where a disability is concerned, these absences are often not counted towards standard triggers.

Have you got a friend who can go in as his representative and he can describe them as such rather than it being you?

I'm surprised they're making such a big deal out of this for someone who works so few hours for such a minor thing and will be very difficult to fire after working there 3 years.

It really isn't a lot of sickness!

He’s 23 so it would be very unusual for a parent to attend or even want to attend. You say he has additional needs and then that he stammers - is that the sum of his additional needs or does he have something else that makes him unusually vulnerable?

what was the cause of his absence? 3 absences in 12 months is a typical trigger for a formal conversation because it’s an unusual amount of absence and usually indicates an underlying problem.

How naive are you. There are plenty of times excessive sickness absence is a disciplinary matter 😂😂😂

Its extremely extremely common for people to lie about being sick because they want a free day off!!!

^^Countless posts on here by people wondering how to get out of a meeting they don't want to go to, or how to resolve a childcare issue, and people on here replying 'I'd call in sick if I were you'!! When the person isn't sick!