Son off sick 3 times in 12 months (6 days total) now has disciplinary meeting.

[Charlysunnysky]

My son is 23 and has additional needs - he stammers severely.
He has worked for 3.5 years at a budget supermarket chain as an online picker.
He is contracted to 7.5 hrs which is the standard, but they only use him for 8-12 hrs so he’s been looking for a new job as it’s min wage and not much to get by on, though he lives at home. He’s been trying to get another job for a few months now, as they’re only using him for 8 -12 hrs each week. But he’s struggling, because nobody will take him on after the interview, as his stammer is quite obstructive during interview.
He got a letter this morning - a new manager started on Monday -she may have been reviewing this and come across it or may have been tipped of by the outgoing manager.
He’s hit the triggers for disciplinary with 3 occasions of sickness absence over a rolling 12 months, even though they total only 6 days. But he doesn’t recall a proper back to work meeting on each occasion, just a foot in the manager’s office confirming he’s okay to return. He’s not aware of any minutes being taken, and no warning he was close to trigger points.

I’ve offered to attend with him but he’s not sure if it looks terrible, taking his mum. I think it might make them tread more carefully, knowing he has a witness, but again, I don't want colleagues seeing him go in with his mum either. I don’t know if there’s other performance-related stuff but surely they would mention those in the letter so he can prepare?
What do you think?

Employers do have to give a first stage warning first.
My union rep told me that

In fairness OP those types of assessment centre selection processes are generally for the most demanding, competitive graduate roles, which probably aren't going to be the best fit for your son as the expectations in those roles tend to be really high and not fit well with accommodations.
As someone who is already struggling with attendance in a job with very low hours this week, is he making realistic job applications?
Not saying he isn't capable of more but it may be that a better approach for him could be to go for lower level roles with less stringent interview processes and once he has foot in the door work his way up internally?

It really isn't. For many years I worked in an industry with shift work. It wasn't uncommon for people to take a sick day if they couldn't be granted holiday. I could spend hours telling you all the times people strung things out but I won't. An example that springs to mind is someone with tonsillitis that was far too sick to come work because he didn't have the energy to do so. Fair enough. Imagine my surprise however when during his period of sickness with tonsillitis I attended an inter company charity football match and found him playing. Apparently he'd asked a colleague who said it'd be ok. Other examples are the employee with a bad back and couldn't leave the house yet was seen pushing his father's wheelchair around the streets by a colleague. I'm sure no one will believe me or tell me they're isolated incidents - they're really not!

Haven’t RTFT but worked in a similar (maybe the same!) organisation for years and it is drummed into you as part of manager training that the minute someone goes above 25 on their Bradford score it triggers a stage 1 ‘welfare’ meeting. The purpose of this meeting should be to ascertain that it’s been an unfortunate series of unconnected illnesses and not a bigger issue that the employee needs to be helped with. This process has to happen/form has to be filled in and returned otherwise the manager will end up with a disciplinary for not following the workflow! There is no flexibility in that workflow but the meeting/form completion can be literally a 5 minute chat with nothing further, unless more absence occurs.

Me too. There are some really bad viruses this year. Catching three of them and being ill for two days each time is hardly unusual. What would they rather? Staff came in despite feeling ill and breathed norovirus and flu germs
all over customers and food?

@worldwidetravel2017 Yes, and he has experience in it during a Summer internship.

Of course you can't go with him fgs. As a HR professional I can't express how ridiculous that would be.

It's likely just the policy and they have to be consistent for everyone.
If he was sick then he won't have anything to worry about. It's to deter frequent fliers

I agree - his aspirations need to match his capabilities but these were entry level IT technician apprenticeships. He took this online picker role to support himself while studying an IT degree away from home at University 4 years ago. The pandemic meant more work and less studying as his course was delivered online in his tiny room in halls and the supermarket he works for called him in more & more as their online orders went though the roof during Covid.
He has BBC at A levels but doesn't drive and can only apply for warehousing/factory jobs that are served by a bus service or bikeable as the pay is min wage and an Uber would be too expensive. But he is not being selected for even those jobs because he comes across as too shy or there is just someone perhaps with more of the right experience.

@Charlysunnysky the IT technician roles will unfortunately require a lot of 1st line support activities, most of which need a lot of interaction with end users to work out what problems they are having.
He’d be better off targeting Software Development, Cyber Security, or Infrastructure/Networking specific apprenticeships where he’d be in smaller teams with much less interaction that requires communication skills

That's really good advice - thank you. He tends to avoid applying for the IT roles that are asking for excellent communication skills, which significantly reduces the number, even though when he's talking about something he's passionate about, he is fluent as he's completely absorbed in his thoughts on the subject. He talks to his friends online about tech flawlessly and is very animated and knowledgeable - it's just the interviews and selection centres he says he can't transfer this to. He has shown me software trainee vacancy ads that even though they're small-team based, are asking for great communicators and have no shortage of applications so it's not difficult to see how he goes no further than interview.

OP has clarified that he missed 3 shifts and it works out as a 2% absence rate. Not unreasonable for the policy to trigger a disciplinary but equally this is not a high absence rate. Unless the employer has a reason to think he wasn't really sick next steps will probably be a warning. If his sickness pattern continues it may get more serious but there's no reason to think it will from what OP has said.

But I do need to say that it isn't normal for a healthy person to be off sick three times in 12 months. Looks like this was just bad luck but absent ongoing medical issues it's understandable an employer would have this trigger. I often don't have a single absence in a year and I hold this out not to say I'm some sort of super hero but that some people have a skewed view of how common sickness absence is.

Obviously bad luck happens, and some people have ongoing medical issues that make them more susceptible to illness, but equally some people take sick leave very easily and employers have to have policies in place to identify those people.

I think DS’ discipline meeting is cos you can still sack people for being ill if you do it properly - properly always includes meetings as due process.

Six shifts off out of 48 a year is 1:8 absence, which is quite a lot, not that it should worry you.

Don’t go with him. He’s 23.

Ignore para 2, just read your update.

When your son applies for other jobs tell him to request reasonable adjustments at the interview stage and let potential employers know it’s because of a stammer. A good, inclusive employer should be able to help with what someone needs to do a good interview. It could be having questions in advance or interviews online rather than in person for example. If they aren’t helpful at that stage I would keep looking for an employer who is.

Exactly this

It doesn't necessarily follow that an employer would be aware of a chronic illness, though - in some workplaces it's a really bad idea to admit to something like that. I've worked in a few such places.

Where I work we get no sick leave at all. Don’t work, you don’t get paid. Totally unliveable long term.

I agree with others it’s a check in. Your DS will be fine but considerations for a longer term, more supported role may be worth looking into, as said above some companies are much better with diversity support than others. Also echo taking in a colleague as a second ear but also shows he is taking it seriously. If he goes by without going off again soon, he won’t hear any more about it.

It's a stage 1 meeting and it should just be a formality to check he really was sick, is there any ongoing pattern or help he needs, is he definitely following procedures in reporting in. You have to have a system so you can weed out the malingering people. I've done these meetings as a manager and I had no problems recording that the employee had genuine illness and no further action needed.

He should be prepared to go in saying, I understand this is part of the system, I'm sorry that I was off sick but I have nothing to hide and as you know I work hard on my shifts and am committed to my job here.

People who take spurious sick days are often unreliable and flakey on their working days as well, I'm sure that's not the case with him.

I work in HR.
There should be some terms and conditions outlining their sickness policy. It sounds like he may have just hit a trigger meeting after 3 periods. This isn't usually anything to worry about if it's written down and detailed in their policy. There is also, probably, within that policy details that a return to work interview / catch up which is written and logged after each period.

If they try and dismiss him and haven't followed their own process then it's very unlikely this company would be supported if taken to an employment tribunal.

It’s the fact that it’s 6 days over 3 instances which is the trigger. If someone had a virus and had a week off that wouldn’t be as concerning as several instances of 1 or 2 days which can be perceived as a poor attitude rather than genuine illness

He doesn't get paid for sick leave - those shifts were unpaid. However, I think from an employer's perspective it's more the hassle of arranging cover to honour those picks. There is real impact to the business. That's why it's a shame they don't do anything to try to diversify his role so he wants to stay, if that's possible. He should ask of course, but the Sickness Disciplinary hearing won't be the time to do it so I've not suggested it yet.

I says this because my 17 year old works on reception at a gym and it's 8 quite boring hours on her own, and she was seen by her manager on CCTV going on her phone when (she said) there was nothing to do. They sent her a warning letter through the post and at the next shift asked if she'd like to work in the café as it's busier and part of a team. She's been doing that for 6 months now and loves it.

Does he get paid sick pay?
I guess they want to make sure it's not work related stress and lack of training on their part, I think this is about covering their own back rather than pointing fingers.
I also think you'll find it's not called a disciplinary in any paperwork given

Absolutely don’t go with him

@nodramaplz No, he doesn't get sick pay.

It was called a Disciplinary Hearing in the letter (attached).

Looks fairly standard, it's called misconduct/disciplinary where I work too