Son off sick 3 times in 12 months (6 days total) now has disciplinary meeting.

[Charlysunnysky]

My son is 23 and has additional needs - he stammers severely.
He has worked for 3.5 years at a budget supermarket chain as an online picker.
He is contracted to 7.5 hrs which is the standard, but they only use him for 8-12 hrs so he’s been looking for a new job as it’s min wage and not much to get by on, though he lives at home. He’s been trying to get another job for a few months now, as they’re only using him for 8 -12 hrs each week. But he’s struggling, because nobody will take him on after the interview, as his stammer is quite obstructive during interview.
He got a letter this morning - a new manager started on Monday -she may have been reviewing this and come across it or may have been tipped of by the outgoing manager.
He’s hit the triggers for disciplinary with 3 occasions of sickness absence over a rolling 12 months, even though they total only 6 days. But he doesn’t recall a proper back to work meeting on each occasion, just a foot in the manager’s office confirming he’s okay to return. He’s not aware of any minutes being taken, and no warning he was close to trigger points.

I’ve offered to attend with him but he’s not sure if it looks terrible, taking his mum. I think it might make them tread more carefully, knowing he has a witness, but again, I don't want colleagues seeing him go in with his mum either. I don’t know if there’s other performance-related stuff but surely they would mention those in the letter so he can prepare?
What do you think?

Of course it can be a disciplinary matter. So an employer has to pay for an occupational health assessment so that (insert name) can say they want a reasonable adjustment of a late start in Monday as they go out and get hammered on a Sunday and then ring in sick. You must know that people ring in sick when they aren’t sick? And even if they are sick, at some point a business has to make a decision as to whether it’s something they can carry, you can’t recruit for a new person as the sick person is still there , affects morale as other team members are doing more work etc etc .

It is a lot in the context he only works 1-2 days a week generally. What are the chances that he's happened to be sick on a day he's due to be at work, when 5 days out of 7 he's not at work. If you extrapolate it to someone working full time it could be 15+ sick days a year which would be very high

No I guess it would be capability, but it doesn't really make much difference. 6 days off when you only work 8-12 hours ( 1 or 2 days? ) per week is a lot!

Genuinely sick people sail through the process, and it’s a positive way of checking people are okay.

some people are at it, and only triggers and disciplinary procedures keep them in check.

It's just standard practice. It will just be an interview to see if they can help him, and warn him future sickness may result in more disciplinary meetings. But it's very rare to be sacked for sickness. It takes a long long time abs lots of sick days for that to happen.

I actually would go with him but not as his mum. You can say your his mum but make it clear you are there to aid with communication. I imagine the stress of the meeting will make his stammer worse? It's a reasonable adjustment for him to have some attend with him

Is he still alcohol dependent?

In the shop I work in three sickness then it would Definatly trigger a disciplinary. The first two times you have an interview with your boss. They access your illness and what can be done to help you. The third time it’ll be a disciplinary with the boss decided if you get a written warning or not.

You can not go with him.

6 days when he only works 8 to 12 hours per week seems a lot to be honest. Unless he only works a couple of hours each day.

No he isn't, not unless it is a disciplinary hearing.

Disciplinary process and sickness process are two very separate things.
Yes if you trigger sickness targets will have a meeting with the manager. As a PP stated it is to inform of the policy (which he should know about and have access to) to say he has triggered what is likely to be an informal stage. Set some targets going forward for the next 3 months and then review. They should look at any patterns of sickness/reasons for being off. Also will see if there is anything the company can to do support your sons attendance at work.

If you meet these targets a further 3 months may be set and monitored.

If you breach them, a second informal stage or formal process may start. Depends on the company policy.

That is a lot of sickness compared to his working hours, however as others have said absolutely do not attend with him.

If he’s looking for a new job has he tried local government?

It is a lot of sickness if he only works one day per week. It is the equivalent of 6 weeks off so can see why there would be concern.

@Fitzcarraldo353
'To my dying day I'll never understand how being sick can trigger a disciplinary process. Total madness. If you're sick, you're sick. If prolonged illness is na issue, there are mechanisms to address that. If you think someone is lying, you can address that. But being off sick more than x days being a disciplinary process makes no fucking sense at all..
Sorry OP. Not helpful. Just baffles me'

I completely agree.

It is completely nonsensical...and I am also always shocked that so many people on these threads try to defend the practice.

My son had similar at Tesco. He actually badly broke his finger at work and they made an error and applied his holidays in the middle so it then counted as two absences. As he'd missed one night about 6 months previously due to D&V, that meant 3 absenses in 12 months.

He is autistic and can suffer from mutism when stressed. I actually attended a catch up meeting with him while he was off sick but his disciplinary was arranged for 2am (he did night shift) and he didn't tell me, I think it was sprung on him pretty quickly.

I'd either prepare your son well, see if he can take someone with him or at least give him the points written down. Ultimately I'd ask him what he wants to do and work from there.

Its not quite what you asked but I wondered if he'd like any support around stammering

Has he looked at the STAMMA website it's really good and has lots of information / inspiration / support

stamma.org/get-help/work-job-hunting/stammering-work

stamma.org/get-help/for-your-stammer/adult-stammering-options-explained

Lots of couple of days here anf there looks suspicious for swinging the lead.

No, 7.5. I think it's common in retail so they have a pool of staff they can pull in at busy times.

No, he says he doesn't think so.

Ah it was just the way it was worded "but they only give him 8-12h" sounded like they were giving him less than they'd contracted him.

You are very trusting that people won't just take sick days when they feel like it. Mondayitus can be a real thing with certain people.

The Ops son only does a couple of shifts a week. Yet he's missed 6 shifts over a year which seems a lot.

The 7.5hr thing is so they can say 'we don't have zero hour contracts'

He definitely needs to have someone in with him, if not you then maybe a colleague could go with him? Also there needs to be evidence that their own disciplinary process is being followed. Before a disciplinary, he should have received a warning. If he hasn't received a warning, they can't immediately jump to a disciplinary with no notice unless they're accusing him of gross misconduct (unlikely for sickness absence that's just hit a trigger point).

I hope your son keeps his job long enough to find a better one OP.