Son off sick 3 times in 12 months (6 days total) now has disciplinary meeting.

[Charlysunnysky]

My son is 23 and has additional needs - he stammers severely.
He has worked for 3.5 years at a budget supermarket chain as an online picker.
He is contracted to 7.5 hrs which is the standard, but they only use him for 8-12 hrs so he’s been looking for a new job as it’s min wage and not much to get by on, though he lives at home. He’s been trying to get another job for a few months now, as they’re only using him for 8 -12 hrs each week. But he’s struggling, because nobody will take him on after the interview, as his stammer is quite obstructive during interview.
He got a letter this morning - a new manager started on Monday -she may have been reviewing this and come across it or may have been tipped of by the outgoing manager.
He’s hit the triggers for disciplinary with 3 occasions of sickness absence over a rolling 12 months, even though they total only 6 days. But he doesn’t recall a proper back to work meeting on each occasion, just a foot in the manager’s office confirming he’s okay to return. He’s not aware of any minutes being taken, and no warning he was close to trigger points.

I’ve offered to attend with him but he’s not sure if it looks terrible, taking his mum. I think it might make them tread more carefully, knowing he has a witness, but again, I don't want colleagues seeing him go in with his mum either. I don’t know if there’s other performance-related stuff but surely they would mention those in the letter so he can prepare?
What do you think?

Get him to join Unite, it's about £10 a month, anyone can join, and it covers all sorts. He might not be able to use it on the current issue but it will certainly be useful in the future.

He's been targeting his applications to companies with good Inclusion & Diversity policies - he had interviews for 2 larger companies 4-6 weeks ago as he met the criteria but he said the interviews went badly for both. He had contacted both prior to the meetings to explain he stammers and interviews tend not to bring out the best in him but that he's fine communicating in the workplace day to day, and would prefer the decision to be based more on his skills and experience if possible. After the interviews when he told me they went badly, I suggested he follow up with anything he wasn't able to articulate in an email and reassure them he's fine when settled in a team/workplace. He didn't get a response to either and to this day hasn't heard back which I think is really bad - one uses a recruitment agency so while I know employers don't like giving out bad news to candidates, it's not like they need to do it directly. He thinks it's just because they think so little of him they can't even be bothered to come back to him.

He also fears selection the centre activity sessions big companies tend to hold, because he's shy and prefers working in small close knit groups where people know he stammers and are understanding, but he has been to a few where he just couldn't talk or present, and even though group work and presenting weren't part of the job, he was made to do it. It's not easy for someone with a stammer to network with strangers, but it doesn't meant they'd not be excellent at the job and a good person to work with. He had asked for a reasonable adjustment (to be in a 1 to 1 and chat while doing a practical work-based assessment), but they said they couldn't accommodate this, and just gave him more time to speak, which just led to long silences while he blocked.

So I agree that larger companies can be more inclusive but their policies are not always a good fit in this case.

It is a disciplinary hearing. But yes I understand why I can't go. He says he will be okay and that there are another 2 team members up on the same charges so he doesn't feel victimised or alone.

I'm so sorry this happened to your son. I hope the outcome was okay. And thank you for sharing your similar experience.

Absolutely no one gets flu frequently…some people get ‘a heavy cold’ in winter.
Actual flu occurs every few years at most…and with actual flu absolutely no one is able to work for at least 10 days.
anyone with 3 episodes of sick leave when they only work under 10 hours a week must be extremely unlucky if their sickness coincides with their scheduled hours.

Thank you. Our local government tends to outsource a lot and his skills are in IT which they use a 3rd party for - they don't employ directly unfortunately.

@Gall10 you can work with flu, it affects everyone differently
Some people might be in bed, some might be capable of working from home or working normally

I am sure it will be fine. It’s standard practice in some organisations that when you hit the trigger points (in this case it sounds like three instances of sickness regardless of length, across a specific time frame), then you have a formal meeting (he will have access to the policy if he looks/asks). He can generally take a colleague only in with him if he’s not in a union if it’s a formal meeting - personally I suggest he joins the union in his next job. If he’s not really happy in this role, hopefully he finds something more suitable for him soon.

Thank you, i hope it goes well for your son. Companies like these don't value people unfortunately. My son ended up just resigning shortly after this and is still not working despite being intelligent, hardworking etc. He just finds it all so traumatising.

It breaks my heart that people like your son (and mine) just don't get a chance to show what the can do as they can't navigate the recruitment process.

I don't really blame anyone tbh. Companies want to try to find the best candidates and they use the resources they have to best select those people as often they just don't have the time to do anything different. It just doesn't work for lots of people.

My dad had a stammer his whole life and when i was looking for my first job, the interviewer had one too, to this day I think i got that job as I was just patient and not concerned at just giving him the time to relax and get the question out as it was something that even as a 16 year old I knew was okay.

Ok but if he's working 8 hours a week then six days off is six weeks off....

Which is a lot.

He should flag in advance that he has needs and ask for them to be accommodated in the meeting...eg can he type his responses to questions or whatever works for him

I'm so sorry to hear that and I agree whole-heartedly with what you say. The employers that give people a chance are worth their weight in gold, as are the recruiters who see past what might be assumed to be an obstacle. People tell me he just needs an IT manager who is only concerned with his skills, experience and can see he has a nice personality. But the recruitment process seems more geared to the silver- tongued salesmen who can charm and wow at selection centres and interviews. Just because they tick all the competency boxes in group tasks by challenging another team member's views, asking lots of questions and assuming a leadership does not always mean they're the best candidate for the role; just that they shine during this type of selection process.

@Charlysunnysky
What's caused him to be so ill? Does he have any Doctors lines to back up his reasons?

3 absences are quite a lot over a year.

Remember the company he is with HAVE given him a chance. But if his issue is anxiety and they can't reply on him to be in, what are they meant to do, they still have a business to run.

That's an awful lot of sickness though. He needs to take someone with him but not you.

Well what can you say in response to 'stop being as sick as you were over the previous 12 months'? Either someone is sick or they're not. If they are then they can't exactly help it.
Disciplining someone for illness? It sounds almost ableist doesn't it?

Just tell him to go in there with confidence. There's nothing he can do about how ill he was a year ago? So it's probably just some procedural shit they have to go through. But don't go in with him. You're right that wouldn't look appropriate.

Definitely encourage him on his job search. Surely with experience in that retailer he'd be a plausible candidate for the other big ones? What about warehouse work? Similar skills and you're not customer facing if he's nervous about the stammer.

@BobbyBiscuits How would you suggest companies deal with the folk with Mondayitus?
The folk who wake up and think I can't be bothered.

How do you seperate them from the people who are genuinely ill but few people are that ill 3 times a year unless they have a long term condition that maybe flairs up that the company already knows about.

He missed 3 shifts from a possibly (we calculated) 155 - 12 months' worth of shifts. Although he was sick 6 days in the year, he was only due in work 3 of them. He was ill either side of those days but they were not his days for work.

Look up for disability confident Employers

Do tell him to join a union as whilst they maybe cant help with past / current stuff - theyd help in future

The stammer effecting his ' day to day living ' - he is likely protected by disability etc

@Needspaceforlego it's a good point. But his sickness absence doesn't seem excessive. If they are going to take the road of assuming 'mondayitis' then they should ask for a doctor's note, but then again why would someone go to the doctors if they were having a migraine attack that lasts one day.
Maybe the excuses he was giving didn't seem plausible. But if someone is a good worker who occasionally cancels a shift in a non salaried job, for illness or otherwise, I'd just take that as pretty normal. The employer can choose how many shifts the person gets on a weekly basis and cancel them at whim, and they call it 'flexible working', so it should work both ways in those types of job. To an extent.

Thank you. He does, but their recruitment processes are still not allowing a person who stammers to shine. I can see that other disabilities could be catered for with ramps/access etc but stammering can be a communication issue and I appreciate that if your candidate can't speak fluently and is shy because they've had 20 years of stammering and all the self consciousness that can come with it, unless you assess them differently to the other candidates, you won't give them the chance to show their qualities.

I hate the whole terminology of “discipline “ in the workplace and always have. It’s the terminology of the army and Victorian mill owners .

If you are not fulfilling your contract as an employee, it’s a contractual matter. They do not bloody own you

3 periods or sick or 7 days in a rolling 12 month period is a common 1st stage sickness trigger point in lots of organisations OP, its nothing sinister.

As others have said, it is completely inappropriate for you to attend but do encourage your son to take a colleague with him for support.

Could he do data entry ?

Could he clarify what stage he is at with his employers sickness/absence policy? Is it a first warning, informal warning etc. it may not be as bad as what he thinks.

6 days is a lot if he only works 8 - 12 hours a week. What is that, 1 or 2 days?