My boss reprimanded me and some of my other coworkers for avoiding a smelly coworker.

[joel666]

I am a 34 year old male and i work as a web developer. I am fairly good at it my work and get along with most other coworkers.

But there is this one coworker that started 2 months ago. I will refer to him as tom.

Tom is good at his job but there is problem with him.

Ever since i met him for the first time, he always had a strong stench to him. His odor is a mix of weed and unwashed body odor and on top of that, his breath smells really bad.

But i always tried being polite but me and some of my other coworkers who also noticed how bad he smells avoid him but we tried not to be rude about it.

For examples. When tom would sit near us, my coworkers and me would tell each other "why don't we go seat over there. This table is a lot cleaner. Why don't we use this computer instead. This one is kinda slow. When you come back from the bathroom, join us on that other table next to the window.

And when we would be in the lunch break room, we would stand there, wait and see where tom would sit and we would make sure not to sit next to him.

But on the bad luck that he would sit right in front of us, i would cover my nose with my hand. And my other coworkers would do the same.

But again we try not to show our disgusts. We don't gag or make any disgusted facial expressions.

But just a week ago, our bosse called me into his office and he tells me that tom feels excluded and me and the other coworkers are creating a toxic work environment and my clique attitude will nog be tolerated.

I admitted to my boss why we avoid him. I told him that i cannot stand the stench coming off tom.

My boss argued and said this is disrespectful and he could very well have a health condition that causes him to smell unpleasant.

My other coworkers later told me that they also got reprimanded.

How would you deal with this ? Health or not, i cannot stand smelly people. I try not to be rude but when someone smells bad my first instinct is to avoid them.

They obviously don't care about anyone else's feelings, do they? Neither do you. Why should I be the only one who would?

Not sure where you’ve established I don’t care about anyone’s feelings?

I’m not here to explain to you why you should care about hurting other people. If you need that explaining, you’re beyond any words I can offer you.

If someone smoked cigarettes and I avoided sitting with them would I be bullying?
What about if they farted continuously ?

Or what about if they spat out food particles constantly when eating. Would avoiding sitting with them whilst eating my food be bullying?

Or what about if they oooo I dunno.... reeked. Stank of weed and BO ☹️

Don’t be ridiculous, that’s not what l said. There was a suggestion from OP that the smell was due to a disability - apparently the manager hinted at it after speaking to Tom. If that’s the case it has to be handled within the law - and asking him to shower and wash his clothes would be seen as discrimination if dirty clothes and body are not what’s causing the smell. There are various conditions which cause strong smells and just because OP has identified it as ‘weed’ doesn’t mean it actually is.

If Tom has declared a disability as the root cause then the manager has a duty to make reasonable adjustment to the satisfaction of everyone involved, and that could include him working from home. If no reasonable adjustment can be found then it’s not illegal to let Tom go, because his needs cannot be considered to the detriment of other employees.

If he has no disability then it’s disciplinary and Tom can be let go if he fails to comply with any disciplinary procedures aimed at improvement.

And I’m not drinking anything thanks. I was a disability outreach worker for many years and came across similar situations with body odour connected with disability. If you think you can override someone’s legal rights as a disabled person, and the need to treat them with sensitivity and respect then l’d check the contents of your own glass.

You, like others here, are insisting that the other employees have no rights to avoid stinking Tom. It couldn't be clearer that you don't care about their feelings.

You don’t raise it with the perpetrator you raise it with management - that’s what they’re there for. Management then find out what the problem is and deal with it. Which doesn’t include an option to just let the situation continue, because everyone in the workplace is affected. If there’s a disability there, reasonable adjustment is sought - if none can be found Tom is let go. If no disability then it’s disciplinary and Tom should be made aware of what he needs to do to rectify the situation. There shouldn’t be a need to avoid anyone if the situation is dealt with properly.

This actually is your manager’s responsibility to deal with. There are plenty of scripts online to help managers have this conversation with an employee who seems to struggle with hygiene.

If I were you, I would email my manager and copy in his manager. I would follow up on the meeting we had, making it clear that as management have not dealt with this issue, you have no other choice than to continue to move away as you won’t be forced to work in an unpleasant environment due to a colleagues personal hygiene. I would tell them that as managers, they have a duty to ensure the work environment is pleasant for all, but instead of dealing with the problem, they are asking you to ignore it and sit next to this person during your unpaid lunch breaks. I would also then include a couple of links to scripts for managers to have this conversation with an employee who smells and suggest that they deal with it as you won’t spend your unpaid lunch with this person until it has been sorted out. Your work environment is unpleasant due to this issue and causing you distress etc.

You really should have made this complaint in writing to your manager sooner, before all the childish bullying. You’d have been protected then because the issue would be how you are uncomfortable in the work place but now the issue is that this person feels bullied by you.
If you ever encounter this again, you make a complaint first in the context of asking for help due to an unpleasant and untenable working environment. You don’t act like a bully covering your nose and getting the whole group to move away everyone he sits down.

Exactly.

This looks like another issue to be dealt with by the Human Resources Dept.

I’ve argued the toss and pointed out the law with this poster and it makes no difference. They are of the opinion that all other employees have a moral duty to put up with the smell. Which is nonsense. The law doesn’t provide for Tom’s needs to be considered to the detriment of everyone else in the workplace, even if he has a disability.

I totally agree.

Surely there is a H & S issue if he's coming to work stoned? I hope he doesn't operate any machinery.

I absolutely agree that the first thing they should have done was report this to management instead of behaving as they did. But respectfully, if Tom reports a disability as the cause of the problem, as seems to be the case here, then everything you’ve suggested here would likely be seen as discrimination. And unless he gives permission to disclose a disability to other co-workers you wouldn’t be told. Management would have a duty to make reasonable adjustment to solve the problem for all and co-workers may have a role in that, but you wouldn’t be privy to any specific disability details unless Tom chose to share.

Ultimately, whether it’s disability, or just bad hygiene, (which would be subject to disciplinary procedures) if no solution is found then Tom has to go. And if he decides to sue for unfair dismissal then the behaviour of all concerned will be looked at by the tribunal.

Depends on the source of the smell. OP has identified it as weed, but this isn’t necessarily the case. There are some health conditions which cause various smells which can be a problem for all concerned because they are produced by the condition itself and not by bad hygiene - so the sufferer has limited options. So it has to be established where the smell is coming from, and if it’s simply the case that Tom is smoking weed and not bothering about hygiene, that’s a disciplinary matter - as would be coming to work stoned, because he’s putting himself and others at risk.

You think you are being polite ... but you aren't. As things stand this person has no idea why they are being ostracised, instead of understanding that there is a remediable cause.

It's always much kinder to be clear, although to be honest your boss should tackle this there is no reason why you can't, preferably individually

Try reading this - soniamcdonald.com.au/2019/08/10/clear-is-kind/

There was a suggestion from OP that the smell was due to a disability.

I don't buy that from the OP's description. I know that some people can't help sweating excessively, but the bad breath and the weed as well indicates to me that this guy has poor hygiene altogether and lacks social awareness.

This needs to go back to the manager/HR to be dealt with.

But we have no idea wether he’s got a medical problem or not. Until then you have a moral duty to tolerate it. That’s what’s meant by being a ‘society’. You act collectively to support the more vulnerable. If you discover it’s just laziness then it’s a different matter. That’s not the case here.

No, no. We don’t have to act as a civilised society and be nice to people.

What we should be doing is isolating people who are different to us, making them sit in a corner by themselves and think about how awful they are, then throw them in the employment bin. No need to be nice normal folk.

The world has gone mad 😂

I don't believe that anywhere medical issue causes all three of the smells the IP is describing.

Isolating someone because they smell is cruel, which is why they should have had a word with the manager.

However, there is no way I would want to sit next to a stinky person to eat my lunch.

Someone needs to gently suggest to stinky Tom that he needs to visit a dentist, wash with soap, use antiperspirant and wash his clothes so that they don't stink of weed.

There’s a difference between what is legal, and what is right.

Not everyone follows a corporate nonsense approach, some people operate with decency regardless of whether it’s legal to do the opposite.

I believe everyone has a moral responsibility to act with decency and kindness, and genuinely do not care if the law allows for being a dick. I’ll leave that there.

But not with decency and kindness to the employees forced to work in an intolerable working environment because you won’t do anything about it?

Poor hygiene may possibly be contributing factor but l spent a long time as a disability support worker and l came across smell connected to health conditions quite a lot. And if Tom has declared a disability as the source, management are obliged to follow the law on how they handle it from here on in. They can’t just dismiss what he’s saying and bang it back to HR as a disciplinary.

It’s difficult for the rest of the workforce because unless Tom gives permission, the manager can’t share any of the details of the conversation in which the disability was disclosed. It sounds like the manager here doesn’t have that permission because they are only hinting at disability - which they shouldn’t be.

If this issue is a result of disability then management will have to try to find a reasonable adjustment which suits everyone - they can’t just prioritise Tom at the expense of everyone else. It may be that no reasonable adjustment can be found, in which case they would have to let him go. Which makes it important that the behaviour of everyone involved can’t be interpreted as discriminatory, and that management treat him according to the law. I’ve seen cases where disability issues have led to dismissal and employers have been torn to shreds at tribunal for breaching the employees rights and allowing discriminatory behaviour to go unchecked.

All very easy for that PP to be on her moral high horse when she’s not the one having to deal with it as a colleague or an employer. I’m pretty certain if she was in either of those positions she’d be less po faced about it.

Can’t do anything further about it. There’s a difference.

It is not the case here. That was an off the cuff remark the manager made to try and take the wind out of the OP’s sails when he bit back during this reprimand. The manager called him in for a telling off, he responded with a legitimate complaint about the smell and the gormless manager has gone, “well, he might be disabled.” That is very very far from, “as appears to be the case here.”

If the guy actually is disabled, the manager wouldn’t have said that. So, I don’t think he is. The manager clearly hasn’t discussed it with the guy and doesn’t want to.

There aren’t any disabilities that make you smell the way the OP describes this person. This is a lack of hygiene.

What do you mean they can’t do anything further about to? They haven’t done anything! They also can do something about it.

It is literally the managers job to speak to the employee about his hygiene and then manage it, check in to see if it improves and start disciplinary if it doesn’t improve.

You cannot go to work stinking.

I’ve come across it as a colleague, and didn’t treat the person any differently. I’ve got no idea if it was hygiene or need based, it was a sort of foisty smell. Wouldn’t know because I didn’t ask, I noticed it and moved on with my life. I wasn’t in a management position at the time, didn’t report it any further. Just acknowledged it and got over it.

That may be because I’ve also been the perpetrator myself, for health reasons, and been treated incredibly poorly by people (like you?) who think it’s acceptable to upset someone because they don’t like something.

Until you’ve been the person ostracised by your colleagues because of an issue you can’t control, don’t come to me about kindness.