threatened with disciplinary for leaving message

[allaboutthatsass]

I'll keep this short.

There's been problems in our department. There are several teams in this department. Myself and several colleagues have complained but no change, so several of us are looking for other jobs.

One colleague has another job and we were asked to sign her leaving card. I signed it along the lines of "congrats you lucky thing! Take me with you, lol x"

Now my manager has pulled me aside and told me my message was 'inappropriate' and could be interpreted badly by other managers in light of all the recent complaints. It could be percieved as 'stirring' and 'bullying'. He says other managers may question him and he may have to give me a warning.

I'm really upset by this. Whilst I obviously do wish I was going too, I didn't think the actual message was 'bad' or something that could warrant an actual warning. I didn't think it was much different from what other people may put in a leaving card and was really trying to be jokey.

So what do I do or say? There's no union. I can't afford to actually leave and I like my job, it offers me lots of great flexibility, I just dont like management.

Keep it factual and specific to the message in the card. It is explainable as a joke in the context of departing colleague talking super positively about their new role & future. You can apologise for the unintended hurt caused.
As for the exit email, not your business, not your problem. You can’t be disciplined for an email someone else wrote. (Unless they are calling out misconduct by you). Whether or not you agree with the content isn’t relevant.

Sorry I can't quite follow who is attending the meeting and why.

A mediation meeting will normally be held when someone has raised a grievance. It's normally facilitated by a neutral body such as HR.

It sounds like you're saying that two managers, who have possibly had complaints made about them by a departing employee, have raised a grievance about you and your performance based on a comment in a card and have called a meeting to discuss? Are they calling this meeting mediation? Who is facilitating this session, recording it etc?

I wouldn't attend until I was clear on the purpose and outcomes.

I’d take someone, ask explicitly and early if the mediation suggested re the comment is actually retribution for you having made a complaint, and say nothing at all re the email, except that ‘I didn’t write the email.’ If they show it to you, ‘I can see it says that, but I didn’t write it and have no comment on that. ‘I didn’t write the email or know about it beforehand, I can see you’re concerned. Perhaps if you forward it to the team we could have a discussion on it?’

If she didn't take one at the time it's a bit late now. Unless her colleague still has the card and would take a picture?

Mediate what? Who are they alleging you are in dispute with? What conflict needs be resolved [both rhetorical questions]

your departing colleagues email is none of your business. Don’t make it so.

as to your comment on her card - it’s a trivial, trite, jokey comment. Nothing more. They need to lighten up.

Perhaps ask for a support person in the meeting? Take notes (or get your support person to take contemporaneous notes). Play every point, question or issue with an absolute straight bat.

I normally just write congrats on the new opportunity sure you will be fab type thing, rather than joking in leaving cards due to people seeing it but it depends on your office environment I guess. I know people would read a comment like that in my place (corporate) and be like "did you see blablah's message" and make a thing of it, so i can sort of see your manager's point if I am honest.
I know you can get jokey cards but it reads like you are about to leave and looking for a new job too lol.

I haven't read the posts since the original one but if you are in trouble for it then you need to work out if its an environment you want to stay in if it doesn't match your personality etc.

I don't understand the informal mediation because that suggests there is unresolved conflict you have already had a meeting for surely?

And out of the people attending who is going to be the impartial mediator, it should be someone from HR or someone who has no interest in this matter. That is not your manager or your ex colleagues manager.

OP do you have an HR person or an impartial person to attend. I would also take a recording device with you and request permission to record the whole meeting. These two managers don't sound like they know what they are doing.

https://www.acas.org.uk/mediation

it makes no real sense to me either so I'm not surprised people replyiing here are also confused! Its not a unionised workplace and tbh I don't know who I can trust now.

I don't see how you can be disciplined for that. Those types of messages are always in leaving cards.
Can you take a grievance out against your manager? It sounds like harassment. You say there is no union, can you join one? Or do you have an HR department?

Perhaps you could contact ACAS and ask for advice.

Would you be prepared to talk to Citizens Advice about it, most have advicelines? They will have ways to proceed with this professionally even if your workplace is behaving unprofessionally.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/

How could it be insubordination? She offered to tippex it out.

'Congratulations you lucky thing' - congratulating a colleague on getting a job/promotion? and saying they were lucky is nothing to do with the employer, but the employee.
'Take me with you, lol x' could be a joke, or they could be friends or close colleagues ... sort of saying 'I will miss you' but more jokey.

I find the fact that HR have allowed this nonsense breathing space astounding.

You clearly dont know what insubordination means.

🤦‍♂️

@allaboutthatsass workplace mediation normally requires an independent trained mediator to facilitate.

I fail to see how the message you wrote on a card would require any management intervention. It didn’t name anyone and was so broad as to have a number of interpretations. Mediation is not appropriate.

WRT the former colleagues exit email/comments if they included complaints then HR/Management should be undertaking a formal investigation. Mediation would be one outcome.

My advice is to email the two manager’s and copy in HR. Decline the mediation on the basis that you are not aware of why it is required and that the two manager’s are at to not be independent.

State you are aware they want to talk about former colleagues exit email and that mediation at this stage is inappropriate. You are happy to be part of any formal investigation triggered by the email but again this must be conducted by an independent investigator.

No employer in the uk can prevent you belong to a union, they can't prevent you for having union representation either. It would be illegal for your workplace to do so

So it's informal mediation not a disciplinary matter then. So they can not give you a disciplinary sanction as an outcome of the meeting.

Say as little as possible, but have a pre-prepared statement regarding the wording on the card and the meaning to you. What's your answer?

You can ask how the comment was deemed as bullying or stirring - as you really cannot understand how it could be interpreted as either.

Anything about your ex-colleagues email. State that you've not seen the email, if they try to get you to read it say you dont wish to as it does not relate to you personally and you can not understand why they are telling you about it or asking you about it. They are trying to draw you into saying something negative. Grey rock, same answer over and over.

Can you just clarify which manager is the 'complainant'?

Do not feel rushed, take your time, say 'I will need to think about that and get back to you' if you are unsure how to answer.

Ask for a break if you need one!

Join a trade union following the meeting. They won't deal with this but you may need their support in future.

I indeed do. Defiance of authority, refusal to take orders.

Well done for Googling.

So how does the OP comment:

"Take me with you, lol x"

...translate to insubordination? Or defying authority? 🙄🤦‍♂️

I once had a manager threaten to discipline me for not going to the Xmas party!!
I told her she couldn't do that. I didn't go and wasn't disciplined for it either. Ridiculous woman. No one liked her.

It's madness.

When a colleague goes on holiday somewhere nice I say "oh can I come with you in your suitcase". Or somesuch.

I do not actually wish to go with her.
I do not wish to be put in a suitcase.

It's just something we say but don't mean.

As was your comment.

Start looking for another job. That employer is horrible.

I was giving you plain English not salad words.

I was agreeing with you that it's not insubordination, but even if I wasn't there's no need you to be so aggressive and derogatory, well downright nasty. I'm a qualified HR professional wjth many years' experience, not an employment solicitor like the last poster you were having a 'set to' with. Start behaving, you're not helping op with your nastiness.

A well written and thoughtful response.

They don't have to allow attendance of a union representative at an informal meeting. This is not a disciplinary hearing.

Wow OP! I would take the line that it was a jokey comment for a leaving card and a pretty standard workplace joke. You certainly never expected someone would take it seriously. As for how other people feel about the workplace, or the issues raised in the leaving email, you are not able to speak for the whole staff and if they have wider questions you suggest they hold a staff meeting or create a chance for anonymous feedback. And then keep repeating that you cant speak for anyone but yourself. How much you are willing to tell them from your perspective is up to you but I might also say that being called in like this does not feel like an appropriate way to explore issues with the workforce.