threatened with disciplinary for leaving message

[allaboutthatsass]

I'll keep this short.

There's been problems in our department. There are several teams in this department. Myself and several colleagues have complained but no change, so several of us are looking for other jobs.

One colleague has another job and we were asked to sign her leaving card. I signed it along the lines of "congrats you lucky thing! Take me with you, lol x"

Now my manager has pulled me aside and told me my message was 'inappropriate' and could be interpreted badly by other managers in light of all the recent complaints. It could be percieved as 'stirring' and 'bullying'. He says other managers may question him and he may have to give me a warning.

I'm really upset by this. Whilst I obviously do wish I was going too, I didn't think the actual message was 'bad' or something that could warrant an actual warning. I didn't think it was much different from what other people may put in a leaving card and was really trying to be jokey.

So what do I do or say? There's no union. I can't afford to actually leave and I like my job, it offers me lots of great flexibility, I just dont like management.

Ask him where in your contract it states you can't leave amusing messages in colleagues leaving cards. He needs to give his head a wobble. There is absolutely zero action your work can take.

Try again.

You completely overlooked the OPs card comment. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🙄

Thats the issue - so address it. Keep your other word salad in the fridge.

The card is a team card, it is a public space that was seen by all of her colleagues.

That's why the manager said to her that he is going to give her a disciplinary.

It's no different to going on the work group teams chat and writing:

"This place is a dump, I can't wait to leave"'

All of her colleagues saw the card.

If op wants to insult the company, she should have written a private card.

I'll say she will just get a telling off, and she will be asked not to do it again.

It shouldn't go as far as an official verbal warning

@HelplessSoul I’m not sure you understand contractual law. Whilst it’s highly unlikely anything would come of this legally there would potentially be a case for the op ‘causing harm to the company’s reputation’ or ‘insubordination’ which are both potentially misconduct offences.

Again, highly unlikely if they value her as an employee generally but it is a silly thing to do

There’s a saying that people don’t leave jobs, they leave managers. Sounds like your manager needs reminding of that! 😁

It's him who will be on their list under a big flashing "fucking liability and a grievance waiting to happen". Agree with others, email him back what he said and ask which policy you are breaching.

@TorroFerney as above. Potentially gross misconduct

The OP wrote:

"congrats you lucky thing! Take me with you, lol x"

The OP did not mention the company in any way, shape or form.

Again, you used word salad, irrelevant completely to the comment in the card.

So what if the colleagues saw the card - nothing the OP wrote was offensive let alone qualifying for misconduct, even at the lowest scale. Bringing in nonsense about Teams chats etc is irrelevant.

You cant deal with the comment at hand because you know its not sackable. If you think it is, present your evidence without using pointless references like Teams which arent part of the OP's post 🙄

I wonder whether you know about it either.

I'd love to see your case law evidence that highlights the company and insubordination from the OP's comment:

"congrats you lucky thing! Take me with you, lol x"

Especially when neither the company/employer or any manager has been referenced.

If you think someone could get sacked on the basis you assert, employment lawyers would be rubbing their hands with glee to defend the OP.

There are very specific processes for warnings. Ignore it but keep a note of any other "words" he has with you

You're in a union, right?

Never a truer word spoken.

I wonder whether you know about it either.
I'd love to see your case law evidence that highlights the company and insubordination from the OP's comment

@HelplessSoul you seem a little ‘frothy’ so this will be my last post to you. But I felt I should write to point out that you have perfectly encapsulated the phrase, which you’ve used three times, ‘word salad.’

Ie your sentence makes no fucking sense.

Yours sincerely, an employment solicitor.

Frothy, indeed.

If only because you havent a clue about employment law.

Again, we'd all love to see your case law evidence that highlights the company and insubordination from the OP's comment:

"congrats you lucky thing! Take me with you, lol x"

Last post to me or not, the fact you have not shown any evidence that the OP's statement is implicates the company reputation and insubordination as YOU CLAIMED indeed proves your comment(s) are nothing BUT word salad.

Is it insubordination?
Op stated, she was accused of : "stirring' and 'bullying".

I'm still not getting how the wording used could be explicitly interpreted as against the employer, never mind bringing any disrepute or whatever anyone is trying to claim. It's very easy to read it as congratulations on the wonderful new role because of the positives and prestige the new job brings, rather than as a lucky escape from the old job.

@GlovesScarfAndBoots this page highlights the potential issue. And I’ve screen grabbed the most relevant bit.

https://www.davidsonmorris.com/insubordination-at-work/

However, as I said before the op’s message is open to interpretation and it would be very unlikely a company would proceed in this instance. However, if, they don’t want the op to continue there, for instance if they’re not viewed as a valued employee, there could be an attempt to push her out off the back of this.

Either way, a lesson!

How can an innocuous comment like that on an INTERNAL leaving card bring the company into disrepute?

Do you even know what disrepute means?

It feels like a massive, massive reach to interpret that message in any of the ways listed in that article. Any employer trying to push someone out on that basis would surely be on shaky legal ground if there was a tribunal.

Any employer trying to push someone out on that basis would surely be on shaky legal ground if there was a tribunal.

yes, absolutely agree.

OP I think your comment was really childish and ill-advised. I'm surprised so many people are saying you did nothing wrong. I doubt very much there will be any formal repercussions, but it's not the brightest to be so openly critical of the organisation when you still work there.

How on earth could they prove it was you? You could have denied it and claimed bullying!

The OP wrote:

"congrats you lucky thing! Take me with you, lol x"

How on Gods green Earth does that fit with insubordination?

Or even with the link you gave:

-Verbally Rude? No
-Vulgarity etc? No
-Criticise business etc? No

Thats some extreme pearl clutching to insinuate that its open to interpretation.

Any lawyer and tribunal would have a field day tearing the employer apart.

Thats some extreme pearl clutching to insinuate that its open to interpretation.

i think you might need to look up the meaning of pearl clutching!

I dont think so. The context I used it in was appropriate.

Cant help you if you cant/dont understand it.

But yeh, carry on deflecting from the OP's card comments that are somehow a form of disrepute and insubordination...

Hello @HelplessSoul here’s the dictionary definition. Hopefully you’ll see this doesn’t relate to my discussion around the legal interpretation of dismissal practice as I’m not making any kind of judgement on the comment and certainly not declaring it vulgar or morally wrong!

noun. outrage or dramatic protest, especially from a woman, caused by something the person perceives as vulgar, in bad taste, or morally wrong but that does not elicit a similarly strong reaction from most other people: pearl-clutching over sexual jokes.