Employer insisting DH returning to the office and childcare

[Hedgepond]

My DH has worked 4 days a week at home and 1 day in the office since the return to work after the pandemic. During that time we’ve had a second child and arranged our childcare around our working hours.

I work in a healthcare job, leaving the house at 7.20 and not back until 8.30/9pm on Mondays and Tuesdays. On those days he drops the children in their before school clubs and nursery and collects them after. One child is at a nursery a 15 minute bike ride from the house and one is a 7 minute walk. So he gets the furthest child at 5.40 in order to get back for 6pm for the other one. From January our little one is going to be in a preschool next to the eldest child and will finish at 5.15 so pick up will be even earlier.

We live an hour away from his office. Currently he works from 8.30- ~5.30 non stop in his home office and the logs in again in the evenings after he’s done bedtime.

On Wednesdays he goes into the office while I work at home and then on a Thursday and Friday I work occasional extra shifts to top up my income but to be flexible in the school holidays, so again he does the childcare on those days. I can do that work within school hours but DH is a back up in case I get caught up in an emergency. He will then collect the eldest
and he watches TV until I’m back… I can extent the nursery last minute for the youngest. I come back from work and take them straight to their swimming etc after school clubs.

He has alternate Fridays off and works at home the other Friday.

If DH has to go into the office on a Monday and Tuesday he will be able to arrive at 8.45 at the earliest (he could do an earlier drop off for the children) and he’d have to leave at 4.30 at the latest to get back but this will be impossible from January onwards when the pick up is 5.15. On a Thursday and Friday I would have to give up my extra work to guarantee I’d be back in time for the pick ups as I can’t risk not having any back-up in case I can’t leave work.

He won’t be able to do the hours he does now if he goes back into the office due to the commute so he’ll have to log in most evenings to finish things (he already does quite a bit anyway). I don’t see how this works well for anyone. I’m worried I’ll have to give up my job to do the childcare as we have no one else who can do the pick ups for us. I can’t change my working hours or days.

Does he have any leg to stand on for continuing WFH or should he start looking for another job? He’s the main earner so if he can’t find another job I’ll have to give up mine.

Yeah he needs to do a flexible working request. What about something like the office days are 10-4 in the office with an additional 2 hours a day from home?

Why doesn’t he ask to start slightly later/leave slightly earlier on some days but with the additional hours made up in the evening? That sounds like a win for everyone. I think that would go down better than insisting on wfh.

Nonsense. Apply for flexible working. And I'd look for another role. This idea from people that working from home is some kind of outrageous privilege is so tiresome.

@Hedgepond I know people point out time and time again that it was doable before the pandemic but the pandemic taught us we can work remotely and we worked our lives around it doing our jobs effectively.

We are in the same position, my husband put in a flexible working request, he spoke to his manager first who wouldn’t budge and couldn’t give him a reason of why he wouldn’t accommodate.

Thankfully his request was approved, his boss was told he has to have a valid business reason for refusing and suprise suprise he didn’t have one, other than he wants everyone in!

If they can’t be flexible then it won’t work, I feel for you and your husband OP, I wish employers would understand a little flexibility goes a long way, good luck xx

I think a lot of people have ruined working from home by trying to look after children at the same time in the household or by not pulling their weight.

These people have ruined it for your husband and it’s a real shame as hes clearly not one of them.

hopefully there’s some space to meet in the middle ok some days, would early starts/early finished work.
Id be completely open with work and see what they suggest

That made me laugh! With traffic, parking etc. distances like this are nearly always covered quicker by bike.

Flexible working is so important now parents so often don’t have the luxury of one staying at home as was so common in the past.

Yes, it's quiet firing.

They are making it more difficult for people to actually meet the requirements of the job, forcing some employees to quit. This is better than official lay-offs, as that tends to make investors nervous.

If you are UK based DH has the right to submit a flexible working request which they must consider.

You are also entitled to certain amounts of unpaid leave for child related reasons until they’re 18.

You can rely on Custom and Practice. He has had this arrangement for over 12 months so it is considered to be an accepted part of his employment relationship.

I think 4 days at home is really generous! Can’t you drop at a childminder 7am?

Hahah yeah my daughters nursery is 15 minute by bike, would be in traffic for 30 easily in a car and there’s no where to park anyway so that’s a stupid assumption

I think a lot of people have ruined working from home by trying to look after children at the same time in the household or by not pulling their weight.

As a manager and a mum I totally agree!

The first line of our recently revised flexible working policy is along the lines of "Working from home is not a substitute for routine childcare".

There have been a lot of babies and young children flying under the radar in the last couple of years. Babies whose parents hadn't even met until after the pandemic! Then one of our senior managers had a baby, and realised that you really can not be dedicated to either the job you're being paid to do, or the child that expects your attention.

There's some discretionary leniency after school, and when the child is off sick.

Same, I cycle to work precisely because it’s quicker than sitting in traffic and means I have a reliable method of getting to school gates on time!

He has zero leg to stand on in this case. It's been really tough getting people back into offices post-pandemic, and I agree that some work places are starting to mandate this. Some new starts where I work don't even have any WFH time allowed!

Because his job provides the majority of your household’s income, I would advise treading lightly here. Yes, this may impact your ability to earn in the short term.

Where is the boss located? If it’s the US, this will be more of an uphill battle, as culturally there is a different view to WFH/work-life balance/PT roles/childcare responsibilities (the US doesn’t even have any Statutory Maternity Pay—it is all based on the goodwill of your employer; one of my colleagues returned to FT work two weeks after her baby was born).

He can put in a formal request based on family needs. Maybe negotiate a trial period, say 6 months. Maybe agree that it will only be until the youngest starts nursery. Explore all options/compromises, but they do have a right to refuse. As a family, you may unfortunately end up needing to prioritise his job, as it pays more of the bills.

I agree, but it's such a backward step. Sometimes it's a case of just needing to justify the rent for offices. Sometimes it's management not trusting staff to get on with their jobs.
In our company we are very lucky in that generally speaking we are just trusted to just get on with the job whether we're in the office is not. And we've accordingly downsized our offices which saves the company money. That said all ofus are 40+ and have been doing what we do for years. we purposefully don't recruit younger folks that need a lot of training/handholding becacuse it would be so difficult to do with most of us working remotely. And they wouldn't enjoy it either. Meanwhile almost all of us have school runs etc to manage and the company is grown up enough to not care, as long as we get the job done.

My DH also works for a US company and has been fully remote since Covid - he only goes into the office once a month but he works in a global role so can have calls from 8am (Asia) to 8/9pm (US).

His work hours are crazy - however, he is senior and very well paid, and has flexibility over his working hours to a certain extent (can do school pick ups as long as he doesn’t have a call in the diary).

Does your DH have a large team in the uk or is he mostly working with his US colleagues? His employer might have to accept that they will get fewer hours’ work out of him if he has to spend all that time travelling.

It may be that the managers value that collaborative face to face working time, or they might be box ticking. They can’t really have it both ways though!

Oh apart from the fact that you have no legal right to request flexible working or leave to accommodate you getting your hair and nails done. Seriously?
It is works problem because the majority of people have caring obligations and it’s in the interests of all of society that those are accommodated as far as possible.

If it was a UK company you might have had a chance, but an American company, not a chance.

The same has happened to my DH and as a manager he doesnt get any WFH anymore.

Contact ACAS/union, much of the advice on here is poor at best.

Is his job one where the hours are strictly enforced i.e. does the company just want him back in the office 5 days a week, or are they also monitoring clock in and clock out times and enforcing that employees are doing all their contracted hours in the office? If your DH is senior enough to need to pick up calls in the evening, then it would be unusual for him to be in a position where someone is monitoring whether he is actually sat at his desk until 5pm. We have strictly enforced set hours we have to be in the office, but provided you're getting your work done and you're not just 'coffee badging' no one cares whether you come in for 5 hours and pick up from home as well or 10 and do everything in the office.

I ask because the solution seems obvious - he talks to his boss and agrees he will work in the office every day but leave at 4 (or whatever time needed for childcare) and then pick up the remainder of his hours from home, which is a requirement of his job anyway because he needs to be on calls in the evening with US colleagues as part of his job.

Appreciate this doesn't help the fact he now has a long commute, but there's no real way around that that doesn't involve moving jobs or moving house!

As almost everyone has said, he has the right to put in a flexible working request. Be absolutely sure that you both understand the law around this: https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working

He needs to make a statutory application and he can only do this twice in any one 12-month period. His employer has to respond within two months and, if agreed, the terms and conditions of his permanent contract must be changed. If declined, the employer must have sound business reasons and these must be shared with him. Your DH's years of precedent and standard of work during that time will be strong evidence. He would be wise to polish his CV and start looking elsewhere concurrently but I think you both know that you would be lucky to find such flexibility elsewhere.

Good luck.

I agree, Can you not find someone who can fill in with the childcare for a small fee? Most working parents have to do that when their children are small, it's part of life.