Employer insisting DH returning to the office and childcare

[Hedgepond]

My DH has worked 4 days a week at home and 1 day in the office since the return to work after the pandemic. During that time we’ve had a second child and arranged our childcare around our working hours.

I work in a healthcare job, leaving the house at 7.20 and not back until 8.30/9pm on Mondays and Tuesdays. On those days he drops the children in their before school clubs and nursery and collects them after. One child is at a nursery a 15 minute bike ride from the house and one is a 7 minute walk. So he gets the furthest child at 5.40 in order to get back for 6pm for the other one. From January our little one is going to be in a preschool next to the eldest child and will finish at 5.15 so pick up will be even earlier.

We live an hour away from his office. Currently he works from 8.30- ~5.30 non stop in his home office and the logs in again in the evenings after he’s done bedtime.

On Wednesdays he goes into the office while I work at home and then on a Thursday and Friday I work occasional extra shifts to top up my income but to be flexible in the school holidays, so again he does the childcare on those days. I can do that work within school hours but DH is a back up in case I get caught up in an emergency. He will then collect the eldest
and he watches TV until I’m back… I can extent the nursery last minute for the youngest. I come back from work and take them straight to their swimming etc after school clubs.

He has alternate Fridays off and works at home the other Friday.

If DH has to go into the office on a Monday and Tuesday he will be able to arrive at 8.45 at the earliest (he could do an earlier drop off for the children) and he’d have to leave at 4.30 at the latest to get back but this will be impossible from January onwards when the pick up is 5.15. On a Thursday and Friday I would have to give up my extra work to guarantee I’d be back in time for the pick ups as I can’t risk not having any back-up in case I can’t leave work.

He won’t be able to do the hours he does now if he goes back into the office due to the commute so he’ll have to log in most evenings to finish things (he already does quite a bit anyway). I don’t see how this works well for anyone. I’m worried I’ll have to give up my job to do the childcare as we have no one else who can do the pick ups for us. I can’t change my working hours or days.

Does he have any leg to stand on for continuing WFH or should he start looking for another job? He’s the main earner so if he can’t find another job I’ll have to give up mine.

@Lostthetastefordahlias my friends husband is a paramedic, he definitely cannot just down tools precisely at 5pm and leave a patient. So no not every parent can leave on time. My friend changed her job to be more school hour friendly as they couldn't rely on him to collect the children.

@Hedgepond He needs to speak to his manager to see if they can work something out and then put in a formal request in writing even if they have verbally said no.

He's doing far too many hours as it is - 9 solid hours during the day then more in the evening, 4 days a week, plus a 5th day in the office? He needs to make it clear to his employers that if he moves back to the office then this (presumably) unpaid overtime will be lost to commuting time.

I've got several people in my team doing a variety of work patterns but a common one is leaving early (either 2.30pm or 4pm) and making the time up in the evening or another day - your DH could maybe do a short day on the Fridays he currently has off? Depends on the role and whether he needs to work exactly the same hours everyone else does.

I would tend to agree with the working to hours if he’s back in the office, depending on his role.

You might not be able to do preschool instead of nursery - mine were both in nursery on working days right up until they left for school, because it was open until 6pm.

Oh and regarding getting another job. It sounds as if your DH has a fair amount of flexibility and autonomy on when he works his hours, plus he has an existing compressed working hours agreement.

There are very few full wfh jobs these days and the job market is brutal.

I suggest he requests an adjustment because of childcare, but best not to go in with a belligerent attitude. His manager is unlikely to be the one to have made the office decision, and will likely want to find solutions to this. I would imagine your DH will have to go in at least 2-3 days a week though.

Does he work compressed hours to a 9 day fortnight? If so is he doing enough hours during the day now? Logging back on in the evening is all well and good but most employers want someone during the day when others are at work.

If I were him I’d submit a formal request to work from home on Mondays and Tuesdays to accommodate school/nursery runs around your job in healthcare. Then say he will be in the office Wednesday-Friday full days.

You then need to submit a request to your extra shifts to leave on time to ensure you can collect your children. On the alternate Fridays he is off you could be put on tasks which may overrun.

Him asking to WFH 4 days when his colleagues are all in 5 days would be unreasonable, particularly when two of the days would be to accommodate your possible extra shifts maybe not allowing you to leave on time (I do understand in health care you may be mid operation or procedure and it’s not as simple as just shutting down your laptop).

Another option, as others have suggested, would be for him to forgo his alternate Fridays off and work shorter days when in the office. He could work a much longer day on a Wednesday when you’re not working.

He needs a new job. Crazy hours. Also he DOES have a leg to stand on as he’s proved he’s done his job well like that for many years!

Absolutely this

I’ve just been made redundant and this statement up thread is bang on ☹️

There are very few full wfh jobs these days and the job market is brutal.

Absolutely agree! Gosh the hours he is working are nuts already without adding in a commute.

Let's remember that he gets every other Friday off - presumably by working longer days on the other days.

Do they want him in the office full time or just more days? Could he start by going in Thursdays too and you focus your extra shifts on Fridays. How much notice do you get of being unable to leave work? Presumably not enough foe you to tell an office based DH by 4.15.

5.15 is an early finish. I feel like some nurseries have started closing earlier due to more wfh, but it's a nightmare for those not wfh.

Taking your employer to a tribunal is never going to end well. Even if he were to win it will destroy the relationship he has with the employer - if it’s got to the point you’re threatening tribunal you might as well resign because that would be the end of your job anyway. Not because they could fire you for doing so, although it could be argued at that point that your position is untenable.

A lot of employers are starting to go down this route, and tbh while he can apply for flexible working it very much is at the employer’s discretion.

My employer has gone one better and has outsourced our entire department to another country and has moved the entire department into a different role. It’s not negotiable, those who don’t want to move have been told they will be given support if they apply for other jobs within the company, otherwise they can choose to leave.

But a lot of people have argued that they are unable to do the new role due to childcare, but these are people who work from home and where they clearly shouldn’t be using that time for childcare anyway, but the new job wouldn’t enable it, think being on a computer vs being on the phone. They’ve been told they can apply for flexible working but that basically their childcare isn’t the employer’s problem, and if they can’t have the quiet environment at home they will need to return to the office.

FWIW there are people with legitimate reasons for not being able to move and those are being looked at separately, but childcare is always going to be a contentious one.

He needs to ask his work if he can do any wfh days and then you need to get a childminder to cover the remaining school runs. It is a total pain in the arse and expensive but it is what everyone who doesn’t wfh has to do.

He’s working more hours in part as he needs to make up a days worth a fortnight to get his Friday off.

He needs to put in a flexible working request.

It might not be approved, but it should be considered.

Wow thanks for the responses. Really useful to get different ideas and perspectives on this.

DH works for an American company and it’s a company wide decision to go back into the office. Part of the reason he works in the evenings is that he has to have meetings with his American colleagues who start work 2pm UK time. The rest of the time he’s talking to the UK colleagues from 8.30am.

I’ll try to respond to some of the other questions later but thanks for your reply’s.

A lot of WFH employers are now wanting people back in offices

There's probably a business reason for this

But they still have to abide by flexible working requests even if they are American. With those hours it sounds like he can put forward a strong case as otherwise he can't do the evenings etc as he'll be commuting

He can apply for flexible working and make a business case for it. If they say no (they should be reasonable but aren't always) I'm afraid it's another job or different childcare

He can apply for flexible working to got hours around childcare a bit better

my husbands job wants them back in 50% and it won’t work for us with the childcare - so he requested a compressed week so he can leave early or start late on the days he needs to do nursery run - However after he started doing the compressed week his boss felt it wasn’t ideal or working well and flipped back to just saying work at home instead - so now he only goes in once or twice a week

i do similar work through my lunch break sometimes so I can get back early

or could he look for a new job that’s more remote based? There’s loads of jobs that are now
it’s not true that your “lucky” to have had that arrangement for so long tbh - it should be a given

@Hedgepond underpinning the work relationship is the contract of employment whereby an individual's services are exchanged for money, the salary.

Having worked for American companies they pay well and expect a lot. There is little comparison with UK organisations and certainly not with the UK public sector. They will stay within the legislation but apply it firmly.

In the old days when we had to go to work we put in place paid childcare. You will have to find someone to take the children when nursery closes or make different arrangements.

You need to arrange childcare to accommodate his commute. A childminder would do drop off and pick up. You have been very fortunate to avoid this so far. Or he requests flexible working.

Lots of employers are wanting their staff back in the office - there are tonnes of threads about the exact same thing. They go hand in hand with the threads bragging about what people get up to on work time - watch TV, walk the dog etc.

Yes, he has to go back to the office and you need to find childcare.

Threads like these the op gives so much detail about the childcare element every time but that's not the employers issue. Follow the processes and procedures, put in a flex work request for what suits the family and consider the options available