Employer insisting DH returning to the office and childcare

[Hedgepond]

My DH has worked 4 days a week at home and 1 day in the office since the return to work after the pandemic. During that time we’ve had a second child and arranged our childcare around our working hours.

I work in a healthcare job, leaving the house at 7.20 and not back until 8.30/9pm on Mondays and Tuesdays. On those days he drops the children in their before school clubs and nursery and collects them after. One child is at a nursery a 15 minute bike ride from the house and one is a 7 minute walk. So he gets the furthest child at 5.40 in order to get back for 6pm for the other one. From January our little one is going to be in a preschool next to the eldest child and will finish at 5.15 so pick up will be even earlier.

We live an hour away from his office. Currently he works from 8.30- ~5.30 non stop in his home office and the logs in again in the evenings after he’s done bedtime.

On Wednesdays he goes into the office while I work at home and then on a Thursday and Friday I work occasional extra shifts to top up my income but to be flexible in the school holidays, so again he does the childcare on those days. I can do that work within school hours but DH is a back up in case I get caught up in an emergency. He will then collect the eldest
and he watches TV until I’m back… I can extent the nursery last minute for the youngest. I come back from work and take them straight to their swimming etc after school clubs.

He has alternate Fridays off and works at home the other Friday.

If DH has to go into the office on a Monday and Tuesday he will be able to arrive at 8.45 at the earliest (he could do an earlier drop off for the children) and he’d have to leave at 4.30 at the latest to get back but this will be impossible from January onwards when the pick up is 5.15. On a Thursday and Friday I would have to give up my extra work to guarantee I’d be back in time for the pick ups as I can’t risk not having any back-up in case I can’t leave work.

He won’t be able to do the hours he does now if he goes back into the office due to the commute so he’ll have to log in most evenings to finish things (he already does quite a bit anyway). I don’t see how this works well for anyone. I’m worried I’ll have to give up my job to do the childcare as we have no one else who can do the pick ups for us. I can’t change my working hours or days.

Does he have any leg to stand on for continuing WFH or should he start looking for another job? He’s the main earner so if he can’t find another job I’ll have to give up mine.

He can apply for flexible working and unless there have been any issues previously or the company has changed how they operate meaning WFO is now necessary it's highly unlikely the employer can refuse with a fair justification.

People on this thread are absolutely mad.

Her DH has been working from home for almost 5 YEARS.

Of course they’ve made decisions on that basis when it’s been going on for that long and the employer has shown no interest previously in stopping it.

None of us have complete knowledge of what the future holds, we just have to make decisions about having children, plans for picking them up etc. based on the information we have.

Her DH’s work is now changing the setup that has been in place for almost half a decade and they’re canvassing opinions on what they can do. In the same way they might have to if someone was made redundant or their company decided to move the location of their office.

You can’t plan for every eventuality.

Your husband can ask his work, but there’s no reason why they should agree to his requests.

These WFH/childcare posts always baffle me. Surely people knew that Covid life wouldn’t continue for ever, and jobs that were originally office-based might become office-based again?

As difficult as it is for families, ultimately childcare isn’t work’s problem. Try swapping “school pick up, nursery drop off” for “going to the gym, getting my hair/nails done”. “I can’t got back to the office because I always go for a run at 9am and I always meet a friend for coffee at 3pm”. From work’s perspective it doesn’t matter if you’re looking after your kids or going to a party - it’s work time and they want you working, often in the office.

He is not logging in to finish unfinished work from home, his contracted hours are until 4.30 but he does the additional work because of the nature of his job. I’ve seen him working at home and he’s literally non-stop all day, he runs downstairs for a coffee once or twice a day and eats lunch at his desk. He doesn’t put a wash on or do anything else around the house. If he goes back to the office the employer will lose out too as he won’t have the time to do extra hours during the day. He logs in in the evenings because as his projects would take a lot longer to complete if he didn’t attend these meetings and get on with the work.

It sounds like he could at least request flexible working. We’ve had this arrangement for almost 5 years now so it’s a massive change for us, hence the long post and asking for opinions and solutions to this.

@Fluffyiguana this exactly

As others have said. You need to apply for flexible working contract due to childcare needs and get his hours formalised. Sounds like he’s doing more hours than he should already though.

So what? It's taken time for companies, indeed countries, to return to normal post-Covid.
It doesn't negate the fact that just because something has been custom and practice for a few years, becomes the norm, particularly if ones contract says differently.
The working world owes no favours to anyone, sadly.

@Hedgepond American companies do have to comply with UK working laws. This may help:
https://plane.com/blog/employment-laws-in-the-united-kingdom-a-guide-for-us-companies/

Totally agree. Anyone can apply for flexible working but it can easily be denied. My gut feel is that it will.

i would suggest if they are telling him to be back in the office they won’t be super open to him working reduced hours in the office.

Unfortunately, the fact that you live an hour away isn’t your employers problem.

Yes he has been working at home those days since the pandemic but a lot of businesses want people back in like we all used to be. It sucks but unless it’s in his contract they can and are allowed to do this.

I would start looking at extra care on Mondays and Tuesdays for pick ups and the extra couple of hours.

He should make a request but I would also guess others would do the same so would prepare yourself for it being denied or if the business is being ‘nice’ to only accommodate one day instead of both.

Good luck.

He can apply for flexible working, certainly on basis he has to work extra hours in evening so any hours lost he can pick up then. They don’t have to grant it. It’s not easy when kids are young. Maybe you could apply for a job that finishes around 5, DH could do morning drop off, and you evening

Before going down the flexible working request I'd have a chat to my colleagues

Has everybody been WFH 4 days? If it's going to impact a lot of them I would try and talk to Senior Management first. What's the rationale behind the change? Is there even enough space for everyone to be in 4 days a week? My company has reduced its overall office space over the last few years.... is there some negotiation that could happen if they've got an office full of pissed off people? What's the plan for implementing? Could it be a gradual increase?

I don't get this part: 'He is not logging in to finish unfinished work from home, his contracted hours are until 4.30 but he does the additional work because of the nature of his job.'
but you also say 'Part of the reason he works in the evenings is that he has to have meetings with his American colleagues who start work 2pm UK time. The rest of the time he’s talking to the UK colleagues from 8.30am.', which sounds like it's not additional work but part of his job?
Sorry if I'm being dim.
Anyway, my point here is that it sounds as if he is very flexible, to the benefit of the company, in terms of the times of day he works at.
I think this would give him a good argument for continuing the arrangement as it is.

Rather than going for a formal request straight away, is there a manager he has a good relationship with with whom he can have an informal chat, at least initially? He can point out his flexibility around the UK/US timing thing and suggest (in much more diplomatic terms than this!) that as he is so flexible, the company should show equal willing in how flexible they can be about his workplace. He could also talk about how he is not unproductive, in fact is more productive, for not having to commute.
Again if he can do so without it sounding like a threat, he could say that he will unfortunately need to think about his future in the job if it can't be made to work around childcare.
Either here or further down the line, if it turns formal, he could ask the company to illustrate how it's to their detriment in business terms that he works from home.

This might have been better posted in the Work section; there seem to be a lot of professional AIBU-ers here who are just here to put the boot in, tell you what a massive favour the company has done you and how ungrateful you are, and how lazy and entitled WFH people are

I would suggest he asks his employer to work wed-fri in the office. And do 3 days in 2 days at home. You can then work around the children on wed-Fri as much as possible and DH goes back to working every Friday to ensure he doesn’t need to work evenings.

I would suggest he looks for something from home but most places now either have or are going to manadate more office working, so I don’t see then help in moving jobs.

No, you can’t plan for every eventuality. But since 2022 a lot of people who WFH during Covid started gradually moving back to offices. There are threads on here about it all the time. Most of us know at least one person who worked from home and now has to go to the office. So it’s a reasonable assumption to make, that if your job used to be in the office, there’s a strong chance it’ll revert to that regime.

It will be a massive change for everyone and I imagine his employer will be taking a hard line on flexible working requests. Otherwise, everybody will be putting one in.

The best thing now is to plan for childcare. Put the flexi work request in but don’t rely on it.

Sorry but this isn’t unusual and is very normal working experience. Most people I know in business work in the evenings. Most people o know are flat out crazy busy.

I work flat out too and finding one minute for a toilet break at home can be challenging.

If he is senior it also isn’t about hours worked or clocked on. He is paid a salary to do a job and it’s about output - frankly a lot of companies don’t care that you work far more than your contracted hours. Evenings, weekends early morning are normal.

Being in the office isn’t just about hours. It’s about interaction and being present - we may not like it but it’s true.

The fact it’s been five years will have no bearing on the request. The company were just slow to return to work or they feel the situation of everyone working from home all the time isn’t working. There is a reason they are asking everyone to come back after all this time and will be prepared for those who want to challenge that. They can do this as I’m sure when your husband signed his contract it was to be in the office. Sure Covid changed things but that was exceptional circumstances and his contract won’t have been changed.

Sorry but I do think you need to prepare for wraparound care if he has to go in on those days.

I work for an American company - the type which famously demands long hours. I've also run my own company (even longer hours...). I've never failed to put the wash on when WFH - it takes little longer than a trip to the loo.

He can talk to the business about extending the arrangements but two days a week is not unreasonable. Unless he is a one man team in a one man back office department then other people are affected by his work as well. They may well be thinking about the junior levels who need casual time with more experienced staff to learn. Clients also like to actually meet and spend time with the people advising and delivering work.

Unless his contract was changed to make his home his official base of work with one day in the office then you need to plan the additional arrangements around the extra office day. To look at it positively - you have had five years of an easier juggle /lower cost of childcare through the most difficult and expensive childcare years.

Unfortunately you have to have childcare in place whether you WFH or not - 515 is too early so you need to find a childminder/after school club whose pick up is 6pm

What does his contract say? Sounds like he has a lot of flexibility currently, is that all formally agreed?

OP, bashing parents who WFH is one of Mumsnet's favourite pastimes unfortunately, so you weren't going to get many balanced replies.
The long and short of it is the place of work will be specified in his contract - the fact they have ordered into the office would suggest it's office-based so they can do this. However, it's completely legitimate to seek a solution with them by way of a flexible working request. Your DH needs to consult their flexible working policy if they have one and if they don't, refer to the ACAS page on it.
Put together a solid application whether it be WFH another day midweek/flexed hours/compressed hours etc. yes they can refuse it based on specified grounds only but they need to be legitimate and you have the right to appeal them. If it doesn't work, the option is to up childcare (financial) or change jobs (difficult when sourcing 100% WFH)

You need to find somebody who is willing to do the pick ups for payment.

I think many of the replies on here cannot be from UK employees. They don't seem familiar with UK employment rights . Of course Op's DH has a leg to stand on. American companies need to realise that they're operating in the UK, not the US. They can't just bludgeon US practice on everyone because it suits their business (I bet it does!!).

Perhaps if people were not working such stupidly long hours, the current job market might not be so brutal.

As for "get a childminder"... do you realise how few childminders are left now?
There aren't many childcare options at all these days, and they're all very expensive.

This. It’s kind of the quiet quitting thing. Also in the evening he looks for other work that is flexible and he is appreciated for his contribution. His current employers will probably be very surprised when he no longer “ logs on “ on the evening. It sounds like your husband goes the extra mile for work tell him to stop, only work when it’s working hours no more.

Definitely put in a flexible working request, but I would keep youngest in the nursery that closes at 6 rather than moving them to preschool. There's no actual advantage in pre school and if it makes your lives harder then I wouldn't bother.

Also, I wouldn't start from the approach that he can't start work on time/has to leave early because of the commute. That's not his employer's problem. But I would come up with a compromise (maybe two or three normal days in the office a week and the rest WFH).