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Managing a challenging person

133 replies

TheLever · 30/10/2024 11:19

Firstly I do not have support in my workplace with this situation so constructive advice from other people is appreciated (thats an issue I will deal with separately. It’s all on me).

I will try not be biased but this person is causing me so much stress so it is hard.

I manage someone lets call them A who has what I find to come across as fairly right wing/fixed ideas. No neurodivergence has been disclosed but am navigating this challenge on the basis that it might be a possibility. I chose not to give them a promotion because their views do not fit the organisation ethos.

They do not believe in equality and diversity apart from when it applies to them. The interview was a car crash. They appear to lack self awareness or have an agenda so fixed that it means they say and do things that make themselves come across as inappropriate, tone deaf and a bit of a bully.

I appear to be who they are fixated on. They (intentionally or unintentionally I will never know) used the interview as an opportunity to belittle, offend and degrade me very subtly. It is clear they despise my management style and they are outspoken that they do not agree with me being the manager, however they applied for a job as my assistant so this made no sense. In the interview it was clear I would not be able to work collaboratively as they were positioning themselves as my opponent not my assistant. When they didn’t get the job they have now convinced themselves and colleagues that it was just a ploy to prove they were right about me. I’m aware they think I am too liberal minded, ie I do believe in equality and diversity!

I still manage them but in their original role, as part of a bigger team. I’ve tried very hard to build bridges and trust with them but they hate me so deeply nothing works. I do not need to be liked I expect to be respected. I am not here to make friends but I do promote respecting each other. I do not spend time upset that they do not like me. That’s fine and completely acceptable, it’s not acceptable to be disrespectful.

Since the interview they will not follow instruction directly, they triple and quadruple question me on every single thing I say and do. This takes up so much of my time. I give a very good explanation (run past others first to sense check) but they will still twist it all and continue to badger me.

They also are triangulating other people into getting very het up and emotional. I spent all morning calming their team member B down who had been gaslighted by A into interpreting an email from me in a completely twisted light. I actually felt sorry for this person as they really did believe that I had said Y when I had actually said X, and I read it out to them line by line giving reassurance that I was not lying to them or playing a game. A had given them a synopsis of my email that was completely untrue. I asked B to always come to check with me if they wanted to ask a question. B left much more reassured.

I have built up so much trust and rapport with my team and this person cannot bear it, so is trying to tear me down through others which is abusive and awful behaviour. Problem is - I can’t prove any of it.

They are apparently trying to goad me into pulling them into a disciplinary so that they can ‘eviscerate’ me.

I have so far taken the high ground and not given their silly games any attention. I will act on an outright blatant breach of contract or behaviours that are unacceptable but how should I deal with all of this silly childish game playing?

OP posts:
PumpkinLatte1234 · 01/11/2024 09:24

the person I struggle with that sounds very similar - but she does respect authority. So while she's rude and always right, and will push and argue whenever possible, she will respect clear direct orders from her manager. Might be worth to try? Remind her that you are the manager and not everything is up for questioning and discussion. With some people, being friendly, inclusive and open seems to backfire.

ThereTheyGo · 01/11/2024 10:14

@TheLever if I can give you some advice from the other side of this, don't delay the formal process in the hope of being able to manage it informally. I think you probably know that an informal approach will get you nowhere and then you'll be back to beginning in starting a PIP. As a wise person I know says, hope is not a strategy.

TheLever · 01/11/2024 10:23

I met with a director this morning and we went over the written messages I have from A. Director agreed there is an issue and to keep documenting and putting together a picture (rather than just bad feelings) so that we can move to address the issues. I did mention the term upward bullying and I think this did make director take notice of what I was saying

OP posts:
ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 10:54

TheLever · 01/11/2024 09:12

I don’t have a manager. I have directors. None of whom are any good at HR they would just defer it back to me. I do have access to HR advice from a large company. They are very helpful when I need to run past them for advice on formal matters. However I am just looking for peer to peer advice and support. I don’t know why that is such an issue? The support I think I am looking for is around managing MY responses and reactions to someone so challenging, I don’t need legal advice or how to follow a process I do know this. I was just bouncing off some ideas from other people in the same line of work as me - it’s been very very useful. I don’t need advice how to manage a PIP I’ve done that many times. Never with someone this combative though. It is really affecting my mental health. I would obviously rather always avoid a PIP if possible and try all other methods first - suggestions to really nail down the values and behaviours of the organisation is a great place to start

My point . about referring to your manager / director was to ask for additional coaching

indeed you even say you think you may need it

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 10:54

not from the manager / director
but to ask for the funds to be able to do external coaching

loropianalover · 01/11/2024 10:55

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 10:54

not from the manager / director
but to ask for the funds to be able to do external coaching

Agree, you can also get the services of a HR consultant as well which might be useful.

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 10:55

how many people in the company?

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 10:58

l. I spent all morning calming their team member B down who had been gaslighted by A into interpreting an email from me in a completely twisted light.

Your email must have been very open to this interpretation
otherwise member B really shouldn’t have been so easily swayed by your assistant regarding an email you wrote

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 11:04

. I actually felt sorry for this person as they really did believe that I had said Y when I had actually said X, and I read it out to them line by line giving reassurance that I was not lying to them or playing a game. A had given them a synopsis of my email that was completely untrue.

but they had received your email
from you
this is very odd of B to get so het up and emotional on the basis of A telling them how to react to an email they’d receive from you

either your email was very ambiguous
or
B needs some extra support on reading emails

TheLever · 01/11/2024 11:13

@ketchuptom no I am sorry, it wasn’t ambiguous. A has a very turbulent relationship with B. There is a very long standing history of upset between them before my time. B is easily manipulated and gaslighted, unfortunately is a person who is susceptible to this kind of behaviour and got themselves upset and confused. I spent time with them showing them what was real. Then it was fine. I have a good rapport with B. A doesn’t like it and tries to disrupt it. A has an agenda. B does need support reading emails and I provided it.

Please can you read my posts. A is not my assistant.

I’m in a small organisation. I already know how to access coaching. I came here for peer to peer anon chats. I’m not commissioning services from people on Mumsnet in a serious HR matter. They will not pay for a HR consultant. I’m just having a difficult time and posted for some other opinions. I now feel like you are grilling me in a way that is making me feel uncomfortable - I’ve already explained most of these things and touched on them. Thanks for your input though

OP posts:
ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 11:31

this company sounds bloody awful

B received an email direct from you. And so easily swayed that A manages to convince that your supposedly completely unambiguous email was actually something completely different and consequently got very emotional and upset, requiring your entire morning to calm them down.

There needs to be sweeping changes i suspect and not just relating to A

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 11:35

and now you thinking i am giving you “a grilling” and making you feel uncomfortable

just asking direct question has you feeling like this

the drama that must go on in this toxic sounding company must waste so much business time

TheLever · 01/11/2024 12:21

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 11:35

and now you thinking i am giving you “a grilling” and making you feel uncomfortable

just asking direct question has you feeling like this

the drama that must go on in this toxic sounding company must waste so much business time

Ok I can provide feedback on how your posts came across to me. Firstly you hadn’t read them all so are misinformed on basic facts.

I found your approach to be poorly conducted, predominantly a negative communication style to express your opinions on to me. You have also made it clear that your opinion is that I am not good at my job, and making things sound odd and unbelievable. That’s your opinion you are entitled to it and I am entitled to disagree.

Additionally you are taking my quotes and making a statement of your opinion about them i.e. this company sounds awful. This doesn’t offer any solutions or support, which was the intention of my post.

I am not finding your approach or opinions useful so I will not respond any further, but I thank you for taking the time to provide them.

OP posts:
ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 12:40

good grief

are you trying to show us your Hr. credentials?

if so… waffley and evasive

no wonder the company is as it is

good luck to the owner i say!

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 12:41

it’s like you’ve just googled

”HR-speak”

IchiNiSanShiGo · 01/11/2024 12:45

Ketchuptom is doing an excellent job showing us how A treats their colleagues - combative, supercilious, unpleasant. You’ve done really well getting into character there my love.

MidnightBlossom · 01/11/2024 12:56

OP, it sounds like you have had a constructive conversation with senior leadership. At the risk of stating the obvious (and apologies if this is coals to Newcastle!) but if the conversation with the Director was verbal, then follow up with a short summary by email, which captures the agreement to build a case. The paper trail you have for senior support will be critical - document everything.

Peppermilk24 · 01/11/2024 13:13

OP it sounds so stressful and I can understand your frustration. I have had similar experiences in dealing with a direct report. She too found the most negative view of any situation often then spinning it up to other team members to create low morale, anxiety among the wider team. It was particularly bad after covid as she started a rumour of compulsory redundancies which just were not true!

I got around her by literally explaining everything to her via email like I was explaining it to a child. The redundancy rumour I addressed with her via email (I had proof she initiated it). When I met with her after it she tried to steer the conversation away from her behaviour and went on a rant about how badly everyone felt, how the company just wasnt the same anymore etc. I literally produced the evidence - basically an email from her to other employees talking about people being "turfed out" etc. I went through it line by line saying things like "Ann (not her real name btw) why were you writing to XZY stating that there were redundancies?" she then goes off on a rant - I would repeat the question until she answered it - she tried to lie, s ie someone else initiated email - they hadnt, we checked - so again back to the original question. She got redder and redder in the face and person taking notes of the meeting was just scribbling away furiously. In the end she said she felt unwell left the meeting and took 3 month off work with stress.

We sent her to OH - again loads of questions from OH as to what was causing her stress etc . When she arrived back we continued with the investigation. She left the job in the end and I gave a very very generic reference to any requests I received from potential new employers. last I heard she was working in a local supermarket and was having complaints made about her attitude to customers. (lady in the office's daughter works with her).

I think all you can do OP is try to remain calm and manage her out. She sounds like an absolute bully!

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 13:25

IchiNiSanShiGo · 01/11/2024 12:45

Ketchuptom is doing an excellent job showing us how A treats their colleagues - combative, supercilious, unpleasant. You’ve done really well getting into character there my love.

bizarre

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/11/2024 13:26

OP, reading between the lines, I'm guessing that this is a charity and that the directors are trustees? They may only be volunteers but they do have a legal duty of care towards you as an employee, so make sure that you ask for the support that you need to manage this situation.

Do you have a code of conduct for employees? If not, can you introduce one? You need to be really clear with staff about expected standards of behaviour and then enforce these, and the Board of Directors needs to back you up on this.

Peppermilk24 · 01/11/2024 15:23

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 12:40

good grief

are you trying to show us your Hr. credentials?

if so… waffley and evasive

no wonder the company is as it is

good luck to the owner i say!

Please don't come on a forum such as this to be nasty - if you don't believe the OP or don't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything. I'm actually embarrassed for you reading your post.

Emmz1510 · 03/11/2024 11:51

If I was you I think patiently wait for them to trip up, which they will, having such vile and bigoted views. I can’t believe there are still working there given they have aired their views on social media! This would be a sackable offence where I work (local authority). Document and get corroboration for every piece of bullying and bigoted behaviour that is witnessed and under no circumstances speak to this person without a witness and if you can encourage others to do the same and document any bullying they are subjected to.
Can you put everything you ask them to do in writing /email? You say they are questioning every task- lay it out crystal clear in writing, and if they approach you don’t refuse to engage but be very firm the task is as you’ve said and not up for discussion. Then document if they don’t do it as asked.
Its in your favour if they get pulled into disciplinary action- I’m sure your practice is unimpeachable, especially if you’ve kept a written record of everything. So they can eviscerate all they like.
They are on borrowed time OP.

user1490652788 · 03/11/2024 19:16

I've had this a number of times (I manage 110 people across the world so have navigated many employment laws etc). You're in HR so you know what you need to do. Document document, document (and try and get backing from whomever needs to approve) to offer a compromise agreement with NDA or similar - on the basis that the company / you as their line manager, can not meet their expectations and that their presence in your team is poisonous and undermines the ethos of the team you have built. If you don't get this person out (cut the head off the snake) it will destroy everything you've built up in your team. Quite frankly, how does that look for the rest of your company (and reflect on you), if that's an issue in the HR team? I've seen this before and it's only a matter of time before your position is questioned. Get rid!

Hididi11 · 03/11/2024 19:56

I had a manager like the person you described

They loved making staff cry
Would belittle them
Got a joy from people's misery

It's very hard on what approach to take
As these people tend to be amazing at crocodile tears and all that sort of stuff
So much so that he and stuff will believe them
Plus, the always play the mental health card when they need to

I left this awful workplace as hr was paid by this person so obviously they would support the manager

It's hard for you in this position. I'm not sure what to advise. But they will seriously screw up your mental health.not sure how good HR is at your place.

Fyi in my second job this type of person was sleeping with the regional manager so he would not bat an eyelid.

Take care of yourself.
Log things down.
Speak to your work mental healthline

Tbh
I think they are jealous of your position
And they want to be you
So sabotaging you
Or just a sociapath

Take care

Lisachooky · 03/11/2024 20:19

Applied for a job as my assistant....that's it....right there....all about the interviewee wanting to ultimately wear you down and take over.Divide and conquer.it won't be much of a division,since said interviewee has only one person to defeat....you.Those who can bully without a conscience lack moral compass, and need to be removed,good luck in how you go forward.