Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Managing a challenging person

133 replies

TheLever · 30/10/2024 11:19

Firstly I do not have support in my workplace with this situation so constructive advice from other people is appreciated (thats an issue I will deal with separately. It’s all on me).

I will try not be biased but this person is causing me so much stress so it is hard.

I manage someone lets call them A who has what I find to come across as fairly right wing/fixed ideas. No neurodivergence has been disclosed but am navigating this challenge on the basis that it might be a possibility. I chose not to give them a promotion because their views do not fit the organisation ethos.

They do not believe in equality and diversity apart from when it applies to them. The interview was a car crash. They appear to lack self awareness or have an agenda so fixed that it means they say and do things that make themselves come across as inappropriate, tone deaf and a bit of a bully.

I appear to be who they are fixated on. They (intentionally or unintentionally I will never know) used the interview as an opportunity to belittle, offend and degrade me very subtly. It is clear they despise my management style and they are outspoken that they do not agree with me being the manager, however they applied for a job as my assistant so this made no sense. In the interview it was clear I would not be able to work collaboratively as they were positioning themselves as my opponent not my assistant. When they didn’t get the job they have now convinced themselves and colleagues that it was just a ploy to prove they were right about me. I’m aware they think I am too liberal minded, ie I do believe in equality and diversity!

I still manage them but in their original role, as part of a bigger team. I’ve tried very hard to build bridges and trust with them but they hate me so deeply nothing works. I do not need to be liked I expect to be respected. I am not here to make friends but I do promote respecting each other. I do not spend time upset that they do not like me. That’s fine and completely acceptable, it’s not acceptable to be disrespectful.

Since the interview they will not follow instruction directly, they triple and quadruple question me on every single thing I say and do. This takes up so much of my time. I give a very good explanation (run past others first to sense check) but they will still twist it all and continue to badger me.

They also are triangulating other people into getting very het up and emotional. I spent all morning calming their team member B down who had been gaslighted by A into interpreting an email from me in a completely twisted light. I actually felt sorry for this person as they really did believe that I had said Y when I had actually said X, and I read it out to them line by line giving reassurance that I was not lying to them or playing a game. A had given them a synopsis of my email that was completely untrue. I asked B to always come to check with me if they wanted to ask a question. B left much more reassured.

I have built up so much trust and rapport with my team and this person cannot bear it, so is trying to tear me down through others which is abusive and awful behaviour. Problem is - I can’t prove any of it.

They are apparently trying to goad me into pulling them into a disciplinary so that they can ‘eviscerate’ me.

I have so far taken the high ground and not given their silly games any attention. I will act on an outright blatant breach of contract or behaviours that are unacceptable but how should I deal with all of this silly childish game playing?

OP posts:
allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 31/10/2024 16:59

@TheLever I dont know any women who would behave like this though. I could see a man behaving like this with a woman boss.

Rainbowshine · 31/10/2024 17:18

I addressed an issue directly with A. It was firm and clear outlining the issue, the policy and the expectation.
I received a response from A which was an instruction to me to carry out actions in their opinion of what needed to happen in relation to other staff

I think you should reply, with a clear message that you want them to concentrate on the feedback and expectations that you gave to them. You are concerned that they have not understood the situation as they seem more interested in others than their own work and behaviours. You are the manager and have responsibility for what other colleagues are doing. Their responsibility is to focus on their goals/deliverables and achieving those using appropriate behaviours. If you observe further occasions where you feel that they are becoming too focused and distracted on issues outside of the remit of their role then you may have to escalate the situation into a formal approach.

To be honest I would treat this as a conduct issue not performance, and use the disciplinary process.

100PerCentMe · 31/10/2024 17:22

OP I reinstated my account just to say you could be me and the person you are trying your manage is the person I was managing too. The dynamic feels identical, even down to the 'over explaining' you describe having to do.
Upshot is that my manager (nhs), despite recognising it as upward bullying, was weak and I've had to resign as they just pussyfooted around my complaint of harassment. Despite other people also explicitly leaving due to this person's behaviour.
I hope it doesn't drive you onto second guessing yourself, loss of self confidence and antidepressants as it did me. I've now had to drop the rope and leave my job in the end.

DancingNotDrowning · 31/10/2024 17:23

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 31/10/2024 16:56

@TheLever Can you tell me if A is a male? it actually sounds like it, and even though it shouldnt make any difference, do you think A might be unable to take orders from a lesser mortal than him? ie is A a mysoginist??

Edited

I absolutely assumed that A was male.

very unusual for NT women to behave in this manner.

100PerCentMe · 31/10/2024 17:24

And reading PP- the person I managed was an older female. She was frightening really.

Icepinkeskimo · 31/10/2024 17:30

I had the same experience with a member of my team, who’s main aim in life was to make my life hell.
I have one piece of advice, when you ask for a report etc, and they come back with “in my opinion” I employed my 5 second silence tactic, and said “do you not understand what I asked for?”
It used to send her seething with rage, I could see her stomping back through the office. She had such a dominating stranglehold on the team, people were scared of her. It’s so difficult when they have been there for so long.
Sometimes it’s time to shake the responsibilities up in a team. This is especially good if a particular person needs to learn new skills. It helps shift their mindset.
Good luck OP

HarkALark · 31/10/2024 18:15

Christ, I had a colleague like this, horrified to discover there's more than one of her. I left in the end. The constant disingenuousness and back-stabbing, I couldn't cope with it.

DirlingWhervish · 31/10/2024 18:37

I clearly displayed my unconscious gender bias as totally assumed and referred to this person was male! But, that said, I have worked with women who awful in similar ways.

ketchuptom · 31/10/2024 18:54

don’t worry i’ll leave
it’s frustrating

ketchuptom · 31/10/2024 18:55

wrong thread!

100PerCentMe · 31/10/2024 19:16

@Dancingnotdrowning Not in the nhs- there are often (NT) women like this. Focused on bringing others down rather than doing the job they are paid to do.

Not2identifying · 31/10/2024 19:17

After replying several times on your thread yesterday, I had a nightmare about my version of this employee. I woke shortly after 6am and I was breathing heavily and shaking with relief that my person is in the past! It really is very tough on management.

I often watched American TV programmes and longed to be able to fire the employee as easily as they do over there! Presumably they'd be mystified with what we're dealing with over here.

Notsogoodhousekeeping · 31/10/2024 21:19

This has been a timely thread, because I too am dealing with one of these. I do not line manage them but I do direct some of their work. @MaryWelly ‘s post is very interesting, not least the point about an abusive relationship (I was in an abusive relationship and there have definitely been some similarities). I have now said I will not work with them. A PP’s point that it’s not just about working hard, it’s about conduct, is so important and I really needed to hear that because I have been trying to be positive about my colleague due to their high quality output. But they have been very difficult to work with and some of our newer staff are scared of them due to outbursts, and that is unacceptable.

WeightLossGoal2024 · 31/10/2024 22:12

BobLemon · 30/10/2024 18:06

If you’re in HR, no chance you can influence setting up some company behaviours or values?

I’ve worked at a couple of places where your performance is measured on both what and how. It contributes to bonus and three reviews in a row not achieving the “how” part of your role would put you on the radar for a performance plan.

This

JFDIYOLO · 31/10/2024 23:30

I used to manage a colleague the grade below me who managed a small team. They were afraid of this person because of unpredictable outbursts and difficulty accepting change, new procedures etc. I took them out for coffee away from the office to find out more about them as a person and learned about some home pressures and stresses not spoken about at work - but manifesting themselves there. Getting away from the work environment did help.

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 07:15

JFDIYOLO · 31/10/2024 23:30

I used to manage a colleague the grade below me who managed a small team. They were afraid of this person because of unpredictable outbursts and difficulty accepting change, new procedures etc. I took them out for coffee away from the office to find out more about them as a person and learned about some home pressures and stresses not spoken about at work - but manifesting themselves there. Getting away from the work environment did help.

That is no excuse for making colleagues feel afraid and not being able to control “unpredictable outbursts”. You should have stepped in way before taking them out for a coffee

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 07:18

TheLever · 30/10/2024 11:40

My greatest moment was keeping a straight face when I heard this.

I kind of pity them in some ways, imagine being that angry all the time

You don’t find it a little… funny that you do in fact work in HR yet find yourself posting on mumsnet asking for HR advice?

TheLever · 01/11/2024 07:24

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 07:18

You don’t find it a little… funny that you do in fact work in HR yet find yourself posting on mumsnet asking for HR advice?

I don’t have any HR colleagues so it’s good to get advice. I’m not perfect sometimes I need guidance and to learn a better way of doing something. Working in HR is grinding and stressful. I have the type of job where no one ever comes to you with something positive it’s always negative. I have had coaching before maybe it’s time for more coaching!

A is female and older than me.

I have tried getting to know A and they are very happy to talk about themselves. I know a fair amount about them they don’t know anything about me. I hear about A’s pressures and stresses regularly.

OP posts:
ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 07:30

If you feel you need to come to mumsnet for HR help, and you are the only HR person in your company… then i think you should approach your manager and ask for some additional training?

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 07:30

I have had coaching before maybe it’s time for more coaching!

this

Whyherewego · 01/11/2024 07:40

Is it possible to restructure the team slightly so A reports to someone else ?
Otherwise I think the main thing is you have to document the examples of where the misreading or not reading mails/instructions causes actual impact as you described.
The other thing I'd do is offer them a coach? Do you have that in your organisation?

PumpkinLatte1234 · 01/11/2024 07:46

A PP’s point that it’s not just about working hard, it’s about conduct, is so important and I really needed to hear that because I have been trying to be positive about my colleague due to their high quality output. But they have been very difficult to work with and some of our newer staff are scared of them

Same here - I have a colleague who is very smart, working hard - but such a challenging personality that nobody wants to work with them. And if working with people is a requirement for your job, this means they don't actually do their job well.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 01/11/2024 08:35

They can definitely get formal feedback about appropriate communication and feedback or management procedures
Tell everyone in a team meeting what's excepted and what's not ok, put it in an email and then refer back to this when giving formal warnings to the person

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 01/11/2024 08:38

Can you ask your directors if they'll have an hr consultant on retainer for you to call up as a when issues arise?

TheLever · 01/11/2024 09:12

ketchuptom · 01/11/2024 07:30

If you feel you need to come to mumsnet for HR help, and you are the only HR person in your company… then i think you should approach your manager and ask for some additional training?

I don’t have a manager. I have directors. None of whom are any good at HR they would just defer it back to me. I do have access to HR advice from a large company. They are very helpful when I need to run past them for advice on formal matters. However I am just looking for peer to peer advice and support. I don’t know why that is such an issue? The support I think I am looking for is around managing MY responses and reactions to someone so challenging, I don’t need legal advice or how to follow a process I do know this. I was just bouncing off some ideas from other people in the same line of work as me - it’s been very very useful. I don’t need advice how to manage a PIP I’ve done that many times. Never with someone this combative though. It is really affecting my mental health. I would obviously rather always avoid a PIP if possible and try all other methods first - suggestions to really nail down the values and behaviours of the organisation is a great place to start

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread