Managing a challenging person

[TheLever]

Firstly I do not have support in my workplace with this situation so constructive advice from other people is appreciated (thats an issue I will deal with separately. It’s all on me).

I will try not be biased but this person is causing me so much stress so it is hard.

I manage someone lets call them A who has what I find to come across as fairly right wing/fixed ideas. No neurodivergence has been disclosed but am navigating this challenge on the basis that it might be a possibility. I chose not to give them a promotion because their views do not fit the organisation ethos.

They do not believe in equality and diversity apart from when it applies to them. The interview was a car crash. They appear to lack self awareness or have an agenda so fixed that it means they say and do things that make themselves come across as inappropriate, tone deaf and a bit of a bully.

I appear to be who they are fixated on. They (intentionally or unintentionally I will never know) used the interview as an opportunity to belittle, offend and degrade me very subtly. It is clear they despise my management style and they are outspoken that they do not agree with me being the manager, however they applied for a job as my assistant so this made no sense. In the interview it was clear I would not be able to work collaboratively as they were positioning themselves as my opponent not my assistant. When they didn’t get the job they have now convinced themselves and colleagues that it was just a ploy to prove they were right about me. I’m aware they think I am too liberal minded, ie I do believe in equality and diversity!

I still manage them but in their original role, as part of a bigger team. I’ve tried very hard to build bridges and trust with them but they hate me so deeply nothing works. I do not need to be liked I expect to be respected. I am not here to make friends but I do promote respecting each other. I do not spend time upset that they do not like me. That’s fine and completely acceptable, it’s not acceptable to be disrespectful.

Since the interview they will not follow instruction directly, they triple and quadruple question me on every single thing I say and do. This takes up so much of my time. I give a very good explanation (run past others first to sense check) but they will still twist it all and continue to badger me.

They also are triangulating other people into getting very het up and emotional. I spent all morning calming their team member B down who had been gaslighted by A into interpreting an email from me in a completely twisted light. I actually felt sorry for this person as they really did believe that I had said Y when I had actually said X, and I read it out to them line by line giving reassurance that I was not lying to them or playing a game. A had given them a synopsis of my email that was completely untrue. I asked B to always come to check with me if they wanted to ask a question. B left much more reassured.

I have built up so much trust and rapport with my team and this person cannot bear it, so is trying to tear me down through others which is abusive and awful behaviour. Problem is - I can’t prove any of it.

They are apparently trying to goad me into pulling them into a disciplinary so that they can ‘eviscerate’ me.

I have so far taken the high ground and not given their silly games any attention. I will act on an outright blatant breach of contract or behaviours that are unacceptable but how should I deal with all of this silly childish game playing?

I’ve also found messages they have sent to other people on the internal system about me.

Right so you have something on record now. You need to tackle this. Every email where they continue to challenge you unnecessarily.

I bet your directors would be interested in the distraction from what they and you are supposed to be doing, keep a log of how much time they are taking up with this nonsense. Time is money, they should care about that!

I work in employee relations so this is what I deal with everyday. You have to go through short term pain to get anywhere. But you have to tackle this or everyone will think you are a poor manager and you will lose the rest of your team and respect of the wider business if you don’t.

In your most recent example the best approach is:

”A as a manager/key stakeholder in this team…”

• ”what do you think you could do to improve the negativity”

• ”what steps have you taken to improve your teams moral”

then next time you meet let them know that it’s your expectation that they engage with rest of team professionally and constructively

the third time you meet when they have same complaints “we talked about the importance of you taking accountability and driving change, what steps have you taken”

and record, rinse and repeat

Ok you have given example of their incorrect poor performance

Failure to work collaboratively
Failure to read written instructions correctly
Failure to follow instructions.
Sending inappropriate emails about colleagues
Misinforming colleagues
Not replying to emails and going off at a tangent

These are all things that can be tackled under poor performance.

@DancingNotDrowning great approach - our meetings are always set out in this way, it is collaborative working. I always invite for their feedback but the response is that they don’t get paid enough to do any of these things so they will not.

I have moved out a few people so far by sticking to my guns, eventually they do usually just leave because they see you aren’t a pushover but occasionally you meet one who wants their moment of glory or to go out in a blaze of destruction. I may sound too nice but I am quite capable of grey rocking and standing my ground if I need to. It just can be a slow process.

I am going to have a good think about my next move based on all the advice.

@TheLever

the problem with asking for feedback on your ideas is they will always push back against you and your ideas because they want to be disruptive, however nicely you ask.

Asking “what do you think you could do” places the problem at their door to resolve and takes the wind right of their sails.

If they say not my problem/I’m not going to do anything then that becomes the subject of a warning because being an effective collaborator and maintaining team morale is a part of their job.

and honestly if I asked someone to think of ways they could better connect with colleagues (or whatever) and they responded they didn’t get paid enough I would tell them I don’t think they were well sorted to the role/organisation and it might serve them well to think about what they want their future career to look like.

sorry you’re having to deal with such a dick

To whoever said it sounds psychopathic, I do not disagree completely there is something very unnerving about someone who is simmering with so much resentment, bitterness and negativity.

@DancingNotDrowning I know. This is where I am at now. A problem arose, we all met to discuss, I took all the actions needed at my end and now my actions are being picked apart, dramatised and it is incredibly disruptive and distracting. A doesn’t like it when I actually am doing my job.

oh no to be clear, they were asked for their ideas. I didn’t bring any. We asked for their ideas on their workload ☺️

I have asked this question and their responses are so completely self absorbed

‘people come to me to talk, I just listen because I am so caring, I can’t betray their confidences’

‘maybe you need to ask everyone else about the negativity I am just repeating what I have been told’

‘I don’t get paid enough this is a management issue’

‘Well it’s not for me to tell management what to do….’

‘I am just here doing my work I don’t really get involved in everything else so I can’t help you’

This needs meticulous evidence gathering and then a PIP to manage them out.

The Directorate need to be told that they can't keep ignoring this issue. How would the Directorate plan for the firm to defend itself, if this individual were to be the subject of a grievance from another colleague? If they keep pretending it's not a problem they are leaving the firm wide open to this person arguing that any grievance-related sanction would constitute unfair treatment because this is how they've always behaved, so why is it only a problem now?

Spend some time gathering three or four really strong examples and how these breach whichever policy/procedure. Then take the conversation upwards, in writing, and make it clear that this is a problem which needs their backing so that it can be addressed.

OK, with regard to the endless negativity, I find that it is helpful to say "I understand that you are unhappy with XYZ. I have explained the rationale for my decision. If you're still unhappy, please follow the formal grievance procedure, which is detailed in the employee handbook." Rinse and repeat.

If they still won't let it drop, I would say something along the lines of "sorry, I think we have already exhausted any informal attempts to deal with this, so can you clarify if you now want me to treat this as notification of a formal grievance?"

If they say "everyone else is complaining", I usually say "well tell everyone else to come and talk to me about it then, as it wouldn't be appropriate for me to discuss other people's issues with you". Or sometimes just "please refer them to the formal grievance procedures then".

I should emphasise, I would only ever use this kind of approach for the kind of toxic, negative employee that you describe. I would actively want the average, decent employee to come and talk to me informally about anything that might be bothering them. But when you have someone who makes it their sole purpose to cause trouble, you need to have a way of shutting them down and this usually works.

It's highly unlikely that they will actually bother going down the formal grievance route, because they actually just want to complain, but even if they do, so what? If you're confident that you're being reasonable, then you have nothing to fear. Though I would give your own boss a heads up that you're going to use this approach as a means of shutting down the endless negativity, just in case they do decide to follow through on the complaint.

Again and I’m not trying to be picky but all those responses are only available to them if you’re asking for their thoughts on what the team/you can do more generally. You have to frame it as a them problem (I have been there and got tshirt in case it’s not obvious!)

“maybe you need to ask everyone else about the negativity I am just repeating what I have been told”

Thank you, does that mean that you don’t have any specific concerns?

and on and on.

if this person is causing a morale issue then have you tried setting up a working group for a small subsection of the team to drive change.

Be specific, if they didn’t like the team building, what would they like to do? Not “do you have any thoughts”, or “is there anything I could differently”: “Emma, what would you like to do for team building?” “Bob could you suggest a list of three things and we’ll have a team vote, let me know what they are on Friday”.

Divide and conquer.

Absolutely echo what last few pps have said here. If everyone has a problem then I will meet individually with everyone as I'm always keen to hear feedback and work collaboratively.

meanwhile, what is your issue?

No, I don't want to hear about Jemima's issue, if Jemima has an issue then my door is open to her and I will follow up with her after our meeting.

What is your issue?

Ah, we've discussed this issue many times and put x,y and z in place. If that is not working then I think there's no alternative but for you to start a grievance. I look forward to receiving it.

If you’re in HR, no chance you can influence setting up some company behaviours or values?

I’ve worked at a couple of places where your performance is measured on both what and how. It contributes to bonus and three reviews in a row not achieving the “how” part of your role would put you on the radar for a performance plan.

Yep, we've introduced values and behaviours. It makes it much easier to tackle this kind of thing.

I am petitioning hard to get these in place.

I am going to put in some better boundaries too. A’s communication style is to make statements. This is why it’s so passive aggressive. I am going to stop over explaining things and say I expect a clear question I can’t answer without one. I’m also going to call A out when they go into repetition mode and push it back onto them.

A knows I don’t listen to gossip and my exact answer will be that my door is open, so they just skirt around it alluding to it to give it more of a dramatic air of mystery that there is a cloud of doom and I am oblivious to it 🙄

A does not have a wide influence so I am not unduly worried. A has a small pool of 3 or so people who they sometimes fall out with and upset but A just does the ‘I’m so real I speak my mind love me or hate me it’s just who I am’ spiel.

I have a staff member exactly the same.
Said staff member has been on a year's sabbatical so due to return soon. The whole team are absolutely dreading it. Staff member suffers from significant mental health issues. Bully's the more vulnerable members of the team.
I do have the backing of HR and my Manager so if the poor behaviour starts again (this is guaranteed( then I am going to manage staff member through a process.
Start noting every incident. That's what I will do.

I have a very similar employee too, but she has pretty much given up on moaning directly to me now. I know that she still moans to others, because they occasionally moan about her moaning behind her back, but at least I don't have to deal with it now.

Agree with changing your communication style towards her. In your shoes, I think my strategy would be to shut conversations down quickly by saying "sorry, I can't talk to you about this right now as I'm dealing with other priorities, please put your concerns or questions in an email and I'll get back to you."

Most of the time, I bet she just won't bother putting stuff into writing. If she does, you will at least have time to consider the best response without being pushed into situations where you feel that you have to keep justifying yourself. And all the while, you will be building up a useful body of evidence about how negative and unconstructive she is.

I feel for you - it's so stressful managing someone like this and such a massive waste of your time too having to carefully word emails.

There are people out there who are just angry all the time and manipulative (I find especially certain men being managed by women) and I think it's the workplace version of an abusive relationship.

Firstly look after yourself - don't check for emails out of work hours, give yourself a break and know that they will 100% be like this to anyone who is managing them, it's their MO. Tbh there will only be a true break when they leave.

My advice is the following steps:
-Performance review with targets on collaboration etc.
-Zero tolerance. Pull them up quickly, politely and with reference to performance review and company behaviours.
-Get closer with members of their team - join team meetings, have regular e.g. monthly one to ones with junior members of your whole team. Do not trust them to pass on information, cc the team directly.
-Personally take exit interviews of anyone on their team who leaves.
-Block the negativity, get them to create a specific spreadsheet of their complaints with their ideas of what they can do to solve them. Flag things that are out of their and your control and tell them they are parked, permanently. Assign yourself max 1-2 things with specific actions if appropriate. They raise any of these things again refer to the spreadsheet.
-Document for yourself every time the cross the line and the feedback you gave. Be specific of what they should have done. Once you have some of this in place - agree with HR a route for performance management.
-Don't get drawn into email threads. Be super clear in email 1, and then just politely refer them back to it. Keep the email as short as possible. They want a vent for their anger, do not give them any fuel.
-If people are raising examples of them not following EDI this can be done anonymously via HR. This should push your seniors into taking action as this kind of thing can be a massive organisational risk.
They should respect all their colleagues - not doing so is unprofessional.
Sending a hug - this is nothing personal to you. 99% of people you manage and work with are nice friendly and professional, but this 1% exist and are a total nightmare. After managing them - managing everyone else will be easy!

Thanks I do appreciate it.

I had to give them feedback about their communication style and they did not take this well before.

The other thing that I have noticed is that A will not use my name. Very careful to always use the generic words management team. It’s carefully calculated to not be directly targeted at me.

I re-read over the post @C152 i think I just mean behaving respectfully, professionally, no one has to admire me. Behaving respectfully towards one another is a basic expectation. It may have been the wrong word. I don’t command or expect respect as their manager - just as a fellow human, colleague. Their personality is not relevant to me when they are working at their job it’s only relevant when they are behaving so badly. When A is being nice they are very nice, they are not awful all of the time.

Looking back on the interview, I think it was a mix. They really wanted the job for their ego because they think a lot of themselves and open about this. They said the reason for applying was that they have been here a long time and have a lot of ideas - fair enough, that’s a relevant reason to apply for a job.

They had spent a lot of time preparing for it I in terms of a sales pitch of themselves to the OTHER interviewer, which suggested no it wasn’t just to get at me but they completely missed the mark, they didn’t actually understand what the job was (as MY assistant) and didn’t prepare for answering questions relevant to the job description at all. They couldn’t answer half my interview questions and kept going on tangents, then I think panicking, saying outrageous things. They found it more comfortable to pitch themselves against me rather than answer the questions - because they wanted to make the job their own and not sit directly under me so that was the point I just knew it could not work. I think they intended to try to show themselves as an immovable force to reckon with but it just came across as ‘I’m going to fight everyone for what I think is right’. Also when it got to the ‘do you have any questions’ section they just continued to talk about themselves. They didn’t ask me a single thing about the job 😂

Also they cannot answer or ask questions I don’t know if this is ND, they can only talk in statements. It’s really odd. I once gave them a job to do that involved asking everyone a question and they couldn’t do it.

I am still astonished how that person has no respect for you as a manager and is frankly rude AF. I have the most chilled and friendly manager and I would never talk to him the way that person communicates to you. And I am the most chilled friendly manager, but if any of my reports talked to me like that, we would certainly have a strongly worded discussion.

Aside from being nasty there is what feels like a disconnect, hard to put my finger on it. It feels like talking to someone who doesn’t understand how 2 way communication really works

(Puts on hard hat and steel boots in preparation) ... Here goes ...

Is it possible they are ND?

I'm reading a LOT about ND people mystified about being called rude, when they feel they are just saying exactly what they think and wish NT people would do the same.

Here though, a lot of their behaviour described here appears calculated, knowing and manipulative, even sneaky, which might not fit.

But it's worth factoring in the possibility.

I found that changing my style (which was once a bit people-pleasy), making very direct, clear statements of what is expected and acceptable, giving honest and consistent and timely feedback, repetition etc have been very helpful.

Also being able to state the organisation mission, vision & values, behavioural as well as delivery standards expected from the JD, team goals, QA scorecard standards etc with confidence and clarity.

And frequent 1-1s with follow ups (for everyone, for fairness).

So nobody could claim at six months review and annual appraisal that they didn't know, weren't warned or supported to improve.

This behaviour, and being seen to let it continue, is not good for your team member, your team colleagues, the business - or your own reputation.

It's time for a frank step up and improve talk. A PIP at the least, focussing on attitude and behaviour. Work delivery is not the be all and end all, even if your senior leadership thinks it is. It's a separate issue.

Gathering evidence of the behaviour and measuring it all against the expected and publicised standards for everyone is essential.

'We expect this this and this, done to this standard in this manner.

While your delivery is high, your attitude and behaviour fall short of this, this and this.'

Start a PIP for them.

You're HR - are your own procedures robust and defensible? Time to review?

Maybe seek advice from an employment lawyer?

https://www.cipd.org/uk/knowledge/guides/neuroinclusion-work/

@JFDIYOLO I agree it’s a strong possibility. It would make a lot of sense.

Values are high up on our agenda from today!

I addressed an issue directly with A. It was firm and clear outlining the issue, the policy and the expectation.

I received a response from A which was an instruction to me to carry out actions in their opinion of what needed to happen in relation to other staff. I do not take instructions from staff in this way and even so; it would be confidential if I was to contact other staff individually. I did not respond as I felt my first message was explanatory enough. It might feel unfair but there is no self reflection.

This is what I am dealing with

Leave a genuine looking advert to be Tommy Robinson or Andrew tates assistant in the office. Fingers crossed they apply

@TheLever Can you tell me if A is a male? it actually sounds like it, and even though it shouldnt make any difference, do you think A might be unable to take orders from a lesser mortal than him? ie is A a mysoginist??

@allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld Oh I thought the opposite!