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Didn't get a role - but they want the work I presented

237 replies

HarraKiri · 08/05/2024 15:58

I applied for an internal role, of which I had to do a presentation on how I would implement a new strategy.

I didn't get the role - a more qualified outside candidate. Fine.

HOWEVERRR my manager (who was on the panel) has said that my presentation was really great and would be so useful for the new starter, and can I email it over to her.

I don't want them to have it. It was EXCELLENT (biased), and it's frustrating that they acknowledge it is excellent but I'm not good enough to be the one to implement it. How would you address this request?

OP posts:
IDontLikePinaColadas · 08/05/2024 20:10

I would really recommend re-reading your contract. Lots of work contracts have IP clauses in them which basically states that any IP created by an employee during their employment is automatically owned by the employer, even after that employee has left.

I got slated on MN a couple of weeks ago for saying that I always have my employment contracts checked over by a lawyer, but it’s for stuff like this - more so that I can understand the implications further down the line, even if I can’t change the clause.

shams05 · 08/05/2024 20:10

Tell her you were so upset and not getting the role you assumed the presentation was not good enough and have gotten rid of it.
My DH was overlooked for an internal role, not only did they give the job to someone else they expected DH to fill in the role whilst DH trained the guy up!
DH sent in his resignation notice within the week and had secured a new job before his notice period was over.

Doyoumind · 08/05/2024 20:10

You didn't get the job and nothing will change that now. If you don't hand it over and give one of the many excuses offered, you will come across as bitter.

It might not have been the right move for your manager to ask for the presentation, but is it really professional or mature to come up with a silly excuse not to?

Do you want to stay? Do you think the business wants you to stay?

If you feel bitter, tell your manager. "I'm glad to hear you were impressed with my presentation. I worked hard to produce it. I'm feeling disappointed it wasn't enough to secure the role and am therefore a little surprised to find my stategy might be the right solution, but I look forward to collaborating with the new starter in implementing my ideas. It would be great to understand how I can develop my capabilities further to work towards promotion in the near future."

Dartwarbler · 08/05/2024 20:11

Wherearewe2001 · 08/05/2024 19:33

What if OP was an external candidate, would the presentation still be the company’s intellectual property?

Or what if she was interviewing at a different company and utilised her experience and knowledge from her current role in her presentation. Would that presentation belong to her current company, or the one she interviewed with?

If she were to write a romance novel on her lunch break every day or during quiet moments in her job, does that belong to her company too?!

This all sounds very very woolly to me, with a lot of grey area.

If it was a presentation she’d written and performed as part of the job she is under contract and being paid for, that her manager ordered her to do, then yes - it would belong to the company as she produced it under their instructions and in line with her job description and duties.

But a job interview, whether internal or external, isn’t the same situation at all. This is something she has chosen to do, completely outside of her contracted role has absolutely no bearing on her current duties or job description.

So taking your points one by one

If it’s external candidate then no contract has been yet been signed and so no- not their intellectual property - partly why when interviewing you should NEVER come up with solutions to company problems and issues. It is not unheard of for companies to ask candidates to do this, take the ideas and appointment no one! never ever give specific solutions or ideas if not an internal candidate, in an interview. If they like your ideas that much make them pay for it.

but if you’ve signed employment contract, that specifies intellectual property- then she is obligated to share all her ideas. Doesn’t make any difference if not in her job description. Most of us do work not in job description or where were not ordered directly to do it - we don’t get paid extra to do that, at certain levels of organisation it’s sort of expected you’ll go above and beyond and do what needs doing, regardless of job description and certainly not expecting your manager to tell you exactly what to do- it’s called initiative and making the most of opportunity. She may have chosen to do it, but it’s her employer who has provided that opportunity to “further” herself, to hers and companies benefit. doesn’t matter a jot if she did in her own time, if she wasn’t employed by them she’d not be doing it. It was for her work she did it,

if she took her knowledge and experience to another company (interview or subsequent employment) and directly lifted process, policies or ideas she’d had in previous companies she’d be liable to be sued by old company. Our contacts expressly had clause to say we could share nothing of our policies, process etc to another employer. We were banned from removing documents electronically or e copy onto personal devices, at any time - disciplinary action.

Some companies used to have contracts banning people for applying and working with competitors for 5 years once they left them- not sure if that’s legal still, but shows how seriously companies take this.

we also had clear policies for interviewing candidates over what we could and coudnt ask. Remember you interview candidates on what their potential is based on past records. Candidates can tell you a lot about past behaviour and achievements without going into fine details. We’d have taken a dim view frankly of someone tells by us stuff about our competitors intellectual property

re novel example- I had a team member who was developing a cook book (very nice samples bought in for team to try 😊). She was not allowed to work on it on company properties, or use company resources- she don’t ask , it would have been flipping obvious to her- why should she? As much as anything it would be issue in terms of her getting a full lunch break and having rest and relax time - she needed eye down time due to working at a screen quite long enough. But let’s suppose she had 2 hour lunch break, was able to bring in home device - the question becomes is what she doing related to business she’s employed in - does she work in publishing? PR? Is the novel likely to include people or places or incidents related to her work? that could still land her in issues. But if there is no connection, no potential conflicts of interest, no competitive threats, and no intellectual property transfer, then it’d probably be fine. She could certainly go off site during lunch and write away- provided it was nothing to do with her line of business. Also note, that if she gets published she may break a clause in her contract forbidding ANY other paid work whilst she’s employed.

it may sound wooly to you. It isn’t. It is simple contractual law. It’ll be clearly laid out in your contract .

If it isn’t in your contract then that’s fine, share away. But you do potentially run a risk of pissing them off, and being reprimanded or being perused through courts anyway if it gives next company a competitive advantage.

as my old company used to say “we are our people”. People provide the intellect that machines can’t replicate even with all the AI. there is now. That’s what makes them successful, or not. They are rightly extremely possessive about it.

C152 · 08/05/2024 20:13

Qwerty111 · 08/05/2024 16:09

“I’m sure that the successful candidate would far rather use their own plan”.

This is a brilliant response (if you can say if without sarcasm...I'm not sure I'd be able to!). I would say no to giving them your work.

MissingMoominMamma · 08/05/2024 20:18

I’d be tempted to come back with the question, ‘Do you think that’s appropriate, given that it wasn’t deemed good enough? Surely the new candidate would rather start with their own work and ideas?’

Dartwarbler · 08/05/2024 20:19

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 08/05/2024 19:49

@Dartwarbler She needs to check her HR policies- in my company that’d be a disciplinary action. We weren’t allowed to download to persoval devices or hard drives. Intellectual property is theirs. not if she did it at home!!

See my other response.

how would she have got that onto company asset to present? A usb? My company would have given anyone doing that a disciplinary for potential to introduce a virus into company assets.

I’d be surprised if she did this

OP, may be helpful to clarify when and where and how you prepared presentation, what experience and knowledge did you use, and other parameters around IP- we’re all doing lots of speculation here.

Ponderingwindow · 08/05/2024 20:28

Did you prepare the presentation during company time or using company resources? If so, it likely belongs to them and you need to send it.

if you worked on it at home, on your own computer, during your own time, then I would say it warrants a conversation with your manager.

napody · 08/05/2024 20:29

ViscountessMelbourne · 08/05/2024 18:38

I assume that none of the pp would actually use the passive aggressive responses they've proposed unless they've already received a job offer elsewhere.

Sometimes you aren't the best candidate. Maybe your presentation was great but the external candidate had mad relational database skills or experience working in a particularly high quality competitor that outweighed anything you could offer. Get over it, try again for internal promotion, move jobs if you want to and think you can do better.

You'd be only human to feel hurt, but deal with that like an adult by saying explicitly that you're happy for them to make use of your work, but the request does make you feel even more disappointed and frankly a bit demoralised.

Ask them. How can you make the cut next time?. What can they offer you to keep you feeling motivated and show you the next steps in your career?

Tbf your manager does sound a bit shit: if you were my report I'd have already answered all the above questions.

But she's not happy for them to use it.

IDontLikePinaColadas · 08/05/2024 20:38

napody · 08/05/2024 20:29

But she's not happy for them to use it.

But presumably she has used her knowledge and understanding of the company to create it. Even if she created it on her own computer and in her own time, this is where the IP clause might mean that her company owns it, depending on the wording in her contract.

Brumhilda · 08/05/2024 20:45

HarraKiri · 08/05/2024 15:58

I applied for an internal role, of which I had to do a presentation on how I would implement a new strategy.

I didn't get the role - a more qualified outside candidate. Fine.

HOWEVERRR my manager (who was on the panel) has said that my presentation was really great and would be so useful for the new starter, and can I email it over to her.

I don't want them to have it. It was EXCELLENT (biased), and it's frustrating that they acknowledge it is excellent but I'm not good enough to be the one to implement it. How would you address this request?

Unfortunately it was on a USB stick that my dog ate.

SO SO sorry but GFY..

Fathomless · 08/05/2024 20:51

Maddy70 · 08/05/2024 16:22

Actually ive changed my mind ...im angry on your behalf. Say "surely they had a better presentation and ideas as they got the job.

I wouldn't wish to undermine them"

yep!

Anameisaname · 08/05/2024 20:56

HarraKiri · 08/05/2024 15:58

I applied for an internal role, of which I had to do a presentation on how I would implement a new strategy.

I didn't get the role - a more qualified outside candidate. Fine.

HOWEVERRR my manager (who was on the panel) has said that my presentation was really great and would be so useful for the new starter, and can I email it over to her.

I don't want them to have it. It was EXCELLENT (biased), and it's frustrating that they acknowledge it is excellent but I'm not good enough to be the one to implement it. How would you address this request?

I'd just say that I'd be happy to meet with the new starter when they start and give them a full briefing but that the presentation was a personal item prepared in your own time and so not something you'd be comfortable sharing.

BippityBopper · 08/05/2024 20:59

Dartwarbler · 08/05/2024 19:35

People advocating deleting? You do know that if she shared it in an interview it’ll be downloaded somewhere in company assets, and that most companies have back ups running pretty constantly.

in my ex company it’d have taken me around a manager around 5 mins to ask IT to run through backups and Restore deleted file . Id have probably go a copy of it in next 2 working days🤷🏼‍♀️

deletng something very very rarely destroys it

Saying she’s deleted it will ONLY work if she produced it in her own time, on her own home commuter, using no knowledge or experience acquired through her experiences with the company, no company resources, and used a home purchased USB to present through the company asset without downloading at all.

and most companies wouldn’t be so daft as to allow someone to insert a USB form home or even download a file via email for fear of introducing viruses into company systems.
🤦‍♀️

How do you suppose the external candidate showed their presentation?

I am a freelance facilitator and plenty of places allow external USBs to be used.

SD1978 · 08/05/2024 21:06

No. I'm not sure how you say no, in a way that isn't fuck no, I wasn't good enough for thr job, so I'm not going to give them a head start in the role I deserve, but that would be the crux of it for me.

AllstarFacilier · 08/05/2024 21:14

Surely it would be embarrassing for the successful candidate to be given this. Weird request!

Lulouise · 08/05/2024 21:15

How insensitive, disrespectful and thoughtless.
Here’s how I’d say, “No,”: the new candidate will want to establish his/her own ideas and develop cachet.

Dartwarbler · 08/05/2024 21:21

takemeawayagain · 08/05/2024 19:58

Doesn't sound like her manager is bright enough to do that.

How would outside candidates show their presentation if they couldn't bring their own USB from home?

OP there is no way I'd hand it over. Your manager sounds like a complete CF.

Edited

They’d be asked to send in by email and then it would be viral checked as entered their system. And they’d be copy downloaded to companies assets.

ok, some companies may stupidly allow people to bring in usb sticks - but no company with any sense. Companies I worked for stopped that years ago. In fact they then stopped asking people to bring in prepared presentations. Wanted either talking off cuff, or allowed time to prepare presentation theyd not previously been told topic of. On company assets. My niece did re prepared presentation as new graduate applicant …5 mins no slides ..but could take in one visual aid. An item from home.

hence why you should never give your ideas away for free as external candidate

And why internal candidates would be unlikely to use their own usb. Form home.

I did ask OP, to elaborate as it’s all speculation…

StripeyDeckchair · 08/05/2024 21:28

Hi Manager
I'm confused - I didn't get the role because someone else was better than me but you want to implement my presentation and not theirs?

option A Are you offering me the role because they turned it down? Or is this an alternative promotion?]

option B I am using this work to support applications to external roles that I'm interested in pursuing. I don't want to be restricted in its use due to this companies use of version 1 therefore I will retain it for my personal use and not share it with the company.

I'd send the first paragraph with option A or B OR option A then B.
Personally I'd be out of there as soon as I got a good job offer - its a fact that moving jobs is often a better move than going for an internal promotion

SoupChicken · 08/05/2024 21:33

SpringKitten · 08/05/2024 18:41

I would leave it a day, then reply “sure, I’ll see if I can find it on my C:drive as I did it in my spare time at home.”

Then just don’t send it. Keep promising to send it and then just don’t. They will forget it quickly.

I would soooo do this, or if I thought I could get away with it I’d say you can have it when I get the promotion.

potato57 · 08/05/2024 21:35

How is your history with them in getting promotions previously? I know many places where they deliberately hold people back because they think that person is great in their current role and don't want to have to fill it. If that sounds like it could be you and they want to have their cake and eat it - pay you less while taking your ideas and stifling opportunities and your career - it's time to move on.

Shareaway11 · 08/05/2024 21:36

It is really cheeky however I probably would sent it because how you behave now may influence the opportunity for any future promotion.

Flopsythebunny · 08/05/2024 21:50

Check your contract. You may not have a choice other than to hand it over

napody · 08/05/2024 21:51

IDontLikePinaColadas · 08/05/2024 20:38

But presumably she has used her knowledge and understanding of the company to create it. Even if she created it on her own computer and in her own time, this is where the IP clause might mean that her company owns it, depending on the wording in her contract.

It's possible, but it wasn't part of her job however loosely you interpret that. It was an application for a new job. I don't think the company gets to own every idea you ever have about anything!

My steps would be:

  1. Wait and see whether they have the nerve to ask you in person
  2. 'Surely the successful candidate wants to use their own ideas?'
  3. 'Whoops, the file seems to be corrupted/deleted- sorry!'

Because no matter what your contract says, morally this is a bullshit way to behave and the resentment would effectively end your journey with the company anyway.

Foggymcfogson · 08/05/2024 21:55

Jog on should cover it....

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