Taking holiday when on long term sick leave

[BananaWaving]

From what I have seen online, apparently annual leave still accrues even when on sick leave.

It seems a bit cheeky, but has anyone taken annual leave when they are on long term sick leave so that they get full pay for that time instead of the reduced sick pay amount?

Also, has anyone who works in HR come across this being done?

Thanks.

Yes holiday does continue to accrue when on sick leave and you can ask to use up holiday entitlement in this way. I’ve seen quite a number of requests over the years and some HR departments will even suggest it to staff on reduced / nil pay.

Thanks @GeeIneverthoughtofthat
I am likely to be on sick leave for years, so can I request full pay for 5 weeks annual leave each year and PHI for the rest of the year? That seems bizarre and a bit greedy.

My workplace are buying back annual leave but a max of 1 weeks contracted hours and you have to have used the 20 days stat leave entitlement to qualify. We also let staff carry over up to 1 weeks contracted hours with the same rule as above.

I think this is also dependant on any HR processes going on.

If you are going to be off sick for years though, won't it be likely you will end up medically dismissed at some point?

My employers income protection policy covers up to state retirement age so I don’t think they can dismiss me for being unfit for work.Not sure though.

If you claim annual leave then you would no longer be entitled to the PHI for the same period, so there would be no financial gain unless the PHI was at a lower rate. But it could raise questions regarding the PHI claim, and disrupt your claim. You cannot get both for the same time period.

PHI terms vary according to the policy, but it is definitely possible to terminate employment under some PHI terms.

To be honest, there's something here about "gift horses" and "rocking boats". Because it is also possible to lose PHI ... I know of a few cases of it happening. Not many, but it does.

I think this is likely to depend on your company’s policy, but in my previous role if you were on sick leave you were unable to take annual leave (it would ‘trigger’ your return to work), however any annual leave accrued would pay out in one lump sum at the end of the financial year.

I think you'll be limited to how long you can be on sick leave before formal procedures are introduced. Consider this when asking for annual leave. If you're health stops your ability to work there's no requirement for your employer to keep you!

My employer would use this against you to get you "moved on" faster.

And yes you can be terminated even with the insurance you mentioned. Annual leave in my work place can't be taken in place or during sick leave. Sick leave trumps AL.

You go on annual leave when you're sick then you're expected to return to work. You don't return you'll go through formal procedures and likely be dismissed within 12 months. You go off again then it triggers formal procedures anyway because it's another period of sickness.

I’m sorry about your health issues but how do you know you’ll be able to be on sick leave for years and won’t be managed out of the business?

This gives you all the info you need:

www.acas.org.uk/checking-sick-pay/sick-pay-and-holiday-pay#:~:text=An%20employee%20can%20use%20their,be%20helped%20by%20a%20holiday

Basically check what your employer will allow.

What employer will pay indefinite sick leave? Most have procedures to terminate contracts after 2 years.

The employer will be getting the 60% of my full salary from their group income protection policy and they would pass that on to me in stead of sick pay or salary, so it doesn’t cost the employer anything except if I ask to take my accrued annual leave in which case I think that would be at full salary so it would cost them the 40% difference for those weeks. As I said, I’m not sure about any of this but there wouldn’t be much point in having policies which paid out until retirement age if the employer could just terminate the contract after 2 years.

I encourage Abby if by staff to do this especially once their pay drops

But surely it costs them to have someone there to replace them? If they expect other employees to cover your workload then eventually they will burn out. My last employment had a similar setup and they still dismissed after a certain amount of time for reasons above

Our work definitely forces retirement on medical grounds if there's no planned return or incremental recovery/improvement

I also don't know of any organisation that would pay out sick pay indefinitely.
This would likely go down the capability dismissal route unfortunately.

They won’t be paying sick pay, they would be passing on what they claim from their group income protection policy.

https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-sick-pay/sick-pay-and-holiday-pay#:~:text=It's%20up%20to%20an%20employee,while%20the%20employee%20takes%20holiday

I imagine you will be medically retired before long if there is no chance of you going back

Yes but they are still paying holiday pay, so it’s still
costing them

I think morally this is cheeky even if you are allowed to do it, I don't think the management team would look favourably at you either

It does seem cheeky but it is a legal entitlement. I’m really confused as It is a minefield

My brothers workplace had this type of insurance and he too thought it would go on paying out for years. 2yrs along he was medically retired so I think yours will probably so the same. If you're that unwell to work you'll probably need to claim disability or pip.

Is there anyone who works in HR or as an employment lawyer who can give me the legal position please.

I've never heard of indefinite sick leave until retirement age. You need to get advice as to exactly what your entitlement is and if it can be terminated. Without studying your company policy and the terms of the insurance cover I think it would be difficult for somebody to advise you on this.

Thanks, that’s depressing. Sorry to hear about your brother.