Taking holiday when on long term sick leave

[BananaWaving]

From what I have seen online, apparently annual leave still accrues even when on sick leave.

It seems a bit cheeky, but has anyone taken annual leave when they are on long term sick leave so that they get full pay for that time instead of the reduced sick pay amount?

Also, has anyone who works in HR come across this being done?

Thanks.

I’m chronically ill. I understand how stressful this is. Maybe try to put it out if your mind until the solicitor gets back to you. Xxx

I think you need to be prepared for the outcome to go either way.

You are reacting quite (understandably) negatively to posters who suggest you won't get the ongoing payments, and v favourably to those that say you will. It's all conjecture. Both ways.

While you are waiting to get the detail I would model up some various scenarios and consider what you would do if those came to pass, to help you feel a bit more in control of the situation.

I am truly astounded that there are insurance companies who will cover people till retirement with “own job” policies. It’s very common for people to become unable to do their job due to ill health, but still be able to work in some capacity. So I’m amazed that such insurance policies exist and will actually pay out. I had no idea.

You will be paid off probably with 1 lump sum because you are medically ‘unfit’ for work regardless of insurance.
It will not go on for longer than 2 years. I am not saying this to be horrible, it’s just so you are prepared. You need to ask your HR department for your company policy regarding sick leave and holiday entitlement, there is no point asking anyone else because it’s your company policy you need to know.

Yes, It is an attractive employment benefit which will thankfully never be needed by most employees. Employers get tax breaks on their insurance premiums and there is often a long deferral period before it kicks in (26 weeks in my case) so that reduces the number of employees who would ever be eligible to claim on the policy. I also continue to get employer pension contributions because the policy pays those to my employer. Just need to get the terms double-checked to see if the employer has scope to fire me due to ill health

OP your policy sounds similar to mine in that it is “own occupation” on a group income protection.

The policy holder is the company and the insurance is a contractual benefit of the job. The employer can’t restrict access to the benefit because that would put them in breach of contract. They can’t “medically retire” someone IF there is a policy like this in place. If the policy did NOT cover the employer for the cost of the employee’s wages then they could show a possible frustration of contract. But if it’s there, then they have to allow the employee to benefit from it.

Additionally if the nature of the incapacity is what would be thought of as a disability then the employee cannot be treated detrimentally as a consequence, and that includes restriction of benefit.

Medical retirement simply does not and cannot exist in cases where the employee can avail of a contractual benefit which would cover this loss.

FWIW insurers do make lump sum offers in an attempt to close the claim but rarely will they compensate for what the employee would receive over the lifetime of the policy, which seems to be in this case and certainly in mine, retirement age.

I don’t believe so but I will
update the thread when the solicitor has checked my contract and the PHI T&C

The policy will pay out in line with the terms on it. If it says 2 years then it will pay 2 years. If it says till 67 then it will pay till 67. They can offer lump sums but they can’t force the beneficiary to accept.

This is the risk that the insurer takes when they sell the policy!

Thanks @AutoOffswitch
I get the impression that a lot of the posters on this thread are hoping that I will be fired quickly for having the audacity to get ill and to have (hopefully) good income protection benefits as part of my contractual terms.

Honestly, is it so hard to see that this is an insurance policy, the same as any other? If you meet the terms of the policy, just the same as if you crash your car or die, the insurer pays out what they said they would in the policy details. That’s it. They don’t get to rewrite that because it looks expensive!

Some can’t conceive of it, can they?

Yes, it definitely says to state retirement age, so that will be 67 in my case.

Mine too.

@BananaWaving https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave#:~:text=When%20an%20employee%20changes%20their,being%20paid%20%27occupational%20sick%20pay%27

Sick leave and holiday
Statutory holiday entitlement is built up (accrued) while an employee is off work sick (no matter how long they’re off).
Any statutory holiday entitlement that is not used because of illness can be carried over into the next leave year. If an employee is ill just before or during their holiday, they can take it as sick leave instead.
An employee can ask to take their paid holiday for the time they’re off work sick. They might do this if they do not qualify for sick pay, for example. Any rules relating to sick leave will still apply.
Employers cannot force employees to take annual leave when they’re eligible for sick leave.

I am not familiar with how PHI works as I was public sector so I would advise you to talk to ACAS and your HR. The case law the government advice I have quoted is based on HMRC vs Stringer. https://www.xperthr.co.uk/editors-choice/hm-revenue-and-customs-v-stringer-and-others-2009-ukhl-31-hl/94368/#

I do appreciate all the comments though. It has made me realise that I need proper legal advice as the devil is in the detail.

I pm’d you…

👍

You need to check both your absence management policies around sickness and holiday.

All employers do things differently. You are bound by your employers policies through your contract of employment.

Is this private health insurance that you pay as an individual?

No, it is my employers group income protection insurance policy. They pay the premiums so they will receive the payouts and it will get paid to me as if it was salary I.e tax and NI will be deducted but employer pension payments will continue.

Thanks, I’ll check with HR

No one here can advise you correctly because no one has access to your original contract, company policy re annual leave, sick leave and PHI & the full details of the PHI cover.

Without them, everyone's only guessing.

Agreed, I need an employment lawyer to check all those documents for me. Waiting for a call back about that

Sorry wrong theead

You need to start your own thread in the “work” section.