To be absolutely fed up with NHS staff off sick

[njg616]

I manage a small team and have had several staff take the complete biscuit with sickness.

One took a year off before retirement - we couldn't recruit until she handed in her notice.

One got a similar job while off sick for 6 months, she then went off sick in her new job

Another got the job 'to cover her bills while she recovered from bunion surgery'

Currently I have someone off sick with a history of long and short term sickness. Has been off sick for half the time she's been in her post- 6 months. I follow policy, and refer her to HR who keep giving her more chances.

I find many staff use their NHS salaries while off sick as their sponsorship to do other things in their lives. This cannot be a good use of public funds especially with how things are at the minute.

These staff would not last a minute in the private sector. Sickness records don't seem to matter which to me is a huge indication of a person's commitment and reliability

did it, aye

Let's hope you never experience long term sickness or disability. You're making out like these people just choose to be sick and a GP signs them off for a year, but it doesn't work like that.

Your attitude to people with sickness as a manager probably contributes to the situation.

Also the old 'they wouldn't survive in the private sector' is Tory rhetoric. If you dislike the NHS so much, go work in the private sector.

Another got the job 'to cover her bills while she recovered from bunion surgery'

Really?

Dont NHS workers get a disciplinary after 3 sickness periods in one year? So it's better to stay off longer, to ensure that they are properly better, rather than coming back and going off again. Blame the policy.

This is part of the problem when there is a six month full pay policy in place. There are plenty of genuine situations but we all know there are others who see it as an extension to their annual leave entitlement.

I know where you're coming from having worked in the public sector. The generous sick leave is easy to take advantage of.

I have always found the nhs sickness policy punitive and shaming. I'd rather have unpaid sick leave in the private sector at times than the way I've been treated (and I'm rarely sick, have only fallen foul of the policy a couple of times in decades).

I think NHS sick pay can be abused and some people are very good at working the system. I also think in some cases it doesn’t do people any favours and they take the full six months when it would have done their mental health more good to be back in work.

All of that being said, the financial support the NHS provides to staff off sick, allows people time to recover and return to work. This allows the NHS to retain staff.

I work for local council and we also have six months, totally right some people take advantage. Too sick to work but not too sick for pub etc.

Its a problem, obviously some people are properly ill, one chap is off with a stroke for example. Someone else is a known pisstaker. He’s off for months comes back for Christmas tips (binman) then off again by March.

I’m ex NHS HR. There are policies and procedures that allow you as a manager to manage these situations (the clue is in the job title). Would suggest you ask your HR team to put you on some training.

Absolutely. Ive a relative close enough to know this is what they do. They get to the warning stages, go in regularly until theyre off it, then back to being sick. They have a partner who isnt public sector who hets a job, works a but, goes off sick until he is let go. Cycle continues.

nothing wrong with either other than laziness.

In NHS Wales it’s 3 in 6 months, 4 in 12, any absence lasting more than 10 days or any pattern.

Im amazed more NHS aren’t off on long term sick the amount of strain they are all under. My dh (NHS) had a day off sick in years, despite the fact that there are definitely times when he should stay home.
The vast majority are extremely dedicated so let’s just be grateful for that eh?

I find this an interesting subject. The rates are extremely high compared with other sectors. All the latest facts and figures are in This NUFFIELD TRUST Report published in June 2023

There are the obvious reasons why rates are so high - physically and mentally difficult work, long Covid, many women employed and the working environment but the fact that it's a heavily unionised sector with much much better 'sick' pay than other sectors can't be ignored.

Sick pay in the NHS is six months at FULL PAY plus another six months at half pay. Thats incredibly generous compared with other industries.

There are people in the NHS who will be taking the piss but how you identify them compared with people who are genuinely unable to work is the issue. Blindly defending every NHS worker as a 'hero' isn't going to help the issue of massive understaffing and the massive waste of money being spent on agency staff.

Yes completely true. I wasnt her hiring manager and she didn't disclose her surgery at interview. She was very smug about it

I'm sure the annual spike in NHS staff calling in sick on Christmas Day is a coincidence.

What irritates me is that the extremely generous sick pay for NHS workers translates into a lack of empathy or understanding for why their patients can't afford to just go off sick themselves for months on end whilst waiting for care/investigations.

Loads NHS staff are suffering burnout post covid and leaving or retiring early in droves. These are highly skilled and experienced staff I'm taking about.
We're about to have a very big staffing problem and a lot of it is down to COVID and the way burntout staff have been treated

I think it happens in any work place with generous sick

we have 6 months full 6 months 1/2 pay and we have regular piss takers similar to as you described

the problem is with large organisations no one seems to own the problem
this is how it pans out in my organisation

HR advise management on rules it’s not there job to instigate things

direct manager follows long labour intensive processes

staff then pull the stress or bullying card

union wade in

senior management back down

then piss taker returns to work only for this cycle to start again

There also needs to be consideration of colleagues of those off sick for long periods of time.

Services are maintained and commissioned based on staffing numbers. Sickness also causes more sickness as colleagues pick up work of those off sick.

They start in informal monitoring. Their sickness is reset to zero as part of this so they have to re breach. In reality the NHS is unable to deal with sickness until it goes on years as the unions persuaded them to have such a weak policy

The generous sick pay is certainly something that is taken advantage of. A family member rarely worked when her DC were younger, maternity leave, return to work for a short time, then long periods of sick leave and repeat. I am close enough with said person to know that they really didn't need to be on sick leave and they said they were just playing the system as others do. NHS sick leave would not be anything near as bad if they didn't have 6 months on full pay.

I work at a university with equally generous sick pay and we are dysfunctional in loads of ways but I can honestly say that I haven't ever known anyone abuse sick leave in this way. I think it's a workplace culture not just the pay.

how mean
the nhs sick policy is pretty strict.
6 months is easier than 3 or 4 odd days.
when i was sick i was nervous to come back unless i was fully fit, as the back and forth would be penalised.

how can you call people pisstakers for 6 months leave?
presumably their GPs are signing them off, occ health is involved.

There are times I find the sickness policy allows the NHS to retain unreliable and lazy staff. By this I mean staff with significant sickness records and those that use sickness as an extension of their annual leave