To be absolutely fed up with NHS staff off sick

[njg616]

I manage a small team and have had several staff take the complete biscuit with sickness.

One took a year off before retirement - we couldn't recruit until she handed in her notice.

One got a similar job while off sick for 6 months, she then went off sick in her new job

Another got the job 'to cover her bills while she recovered from bunion surgery'

Currently I have someone off sick with a history of long and short term sickness. Has been off sick for half the time she's been in her post- 6 months. I follow policy, and refer her to HR who keep giving her more chances.

I find many staff use their NHS salaries while off sick as their sponsorship to do other things in their lives. This cannot be a good use of public funds especially with how things are at the minute.

These staff would not last a minute in the private sector. Sickness records don't seem to matter which to me is a huge indication of a person's commitment and reliability

Not really, just realistic based on actual experience. To brand all criticism of the NHS “Tory” does nothing to help it. Recognising the NHS has flaws and needs reform (mostly through proper funding for things like a functioning HR) is important. I am guessing you’ve never worked for the NHS?

You don't get 6 months full pay until you've had 5 years' continuous service. If you move from one job into another, you're allowed very few days in between where you are not working for the NHS - if you exceed that number (and it's no more than 7 max), you start from scratch. It's annual leave allowance that you don't lose, not sick pay.

And any sick leave you have taken in the past 12 months are taken off your entitlement if you go off sick again - those are the rules.

If managers are not practively managing their staff's sickness and following the procedures, which are very very clear, then that is on them. If people take the piss, you can manage them out - you just have to put in the work.

Some of the NHS slating on this thread is pathetic.

@pointythings - I really wish your experience of the NHS was universal, because the reality is very different. I’ve seen great managers stuck with this issue again and again. Recognising that is not NHS bashing, pretending it’s all going swimmingly everywhere will not help.

I'm guessing quite a few people on this thread, including the OP, have never worked for the NHS. They certainly seem very unfamiliar with sickness policies.

I have, yes.

The NHS wrecking began when Lansley got his sticky mitts on it.

@Neriah - a written policy and how it is implemented are very different. I have worked for the NHS and close relatives still do and I recognise a lot of what is on this thread including what the OP describes.

You might not like to hear it, but doesn’t make it untrue and it doesn’t make us Tories. Can’t speak for other posters but I am firmly in the red camp and would love the NHS to thrive. I recognise the main issue is chronic underfunding leading to poor and inefficient HR and management structures, but doesn’t mean individuals don’t use that to their advantage.

@ClimbingHydrangea of course there are pisstakers in the NHS - just as there are everywhere else. But OP clearly doesn't understand NHS sickness policy, and given the way threads on here have been lately that makes me suspicious. There have been so many threads bashing benefits claimants, asylum seekers and now NHS staff - the question here is: cui bono?

I am fairly sure that I never said that you were a Tory. I never even used the word.

So those saying that you can have six months off with full sick pay, go back for a week and then have another six months full pay are right are they? That's how it works in the NHS? Because I know for a fact that it doesn't.

And as I pointed out previously, if the OP is the manager, then they are a piss poor manager to let staff get away with this and then complain about it. The policies are there and if managers don't use them, that that is their own fault.

"I really think reducing full pay to 50% from day 1 would dramatically reduce absences and stop the tax payer piss taking."
Yeah, great idea. I mean, my friend with cancer, going thru chemo and surgery would lose her house ultimately, but that'll show em, right?

I can’t see where OP has said that and I didn’t say they were right. I said I recognise a lot of their experiences. People coming back from sick leave, meeting the requirements and then going back onto sick leave, rinse and repeat. In my department of around 30 people, 4 were doing this for the two years I was there, had been doing it before I arrived and continued long after I left. The manager was good, but could only work in conjunction with HR who were piss poor and wouldn’t implement their own policies. So OP may be a perfectly fine manager operating within a poorly run system. A written policy means fuck all of you have no support to implement it.

I think that is true but unfortunately you will always have people who work the system to their advantage. In order to keep the staff who are genuinely unwell and with time will recover, it is important to have sick leave policies that encourage those people to return. The NHS cannot afford to lose highly trained and experienced staff due to poor conditions.

I also agree it’s not the policy that’s the problem it’s the management of the policy.

@Neriah

I'm guessing quite a few people on this thread, including the OP, have never worked for the NHS. They certainly seem very unfamiliar with sickness policies.

You are probably correct here .

OP did you really just say that if a potential employee who clearly met job and interview requirements had disclosed a medical condition at interview you wouldn't have employed them? Yikes.

I worked in the NHS for 15 years as a nurse and I have worked in University professional services for 10 years. Managed teams in both. I don't recognise what is being described in this thread.

Perhaps the conditions of NHS jobs tips them over the edge. Sensible then to use their time off sick to find something new to do that won't make them ill.

it is affected, patients need isolating, staff are off

No, your generalising is what's a load of rubbish. Saying people are managed out of their roles.... maybe in your trust eh?

I'm in the private sector and we get five days paid sick per year, anything above that is down to the discretion of the manager.

I work in the nhs. My team has so much sickness (one of them had 33 separate absences in a year, the other person who is the same level as me has at least a week off a month, usually more). It is all unchallenged due to a policy change to cover mental health. One of the line managers has quite a bit of time off as well so I think they take the lead from them. I don't use sick leave as a way to have more A/L as it doesn't sit with my values, but I almost don't blame them as it's there and available.

While I don’t doubt there is a high level of stuff sickness for a variety of reasons, there is some serious exaggeration going on here. Perhaps it was the truth in the past but you cannot be new
to the NHS and instantly be eligible for 6 months full pay. You also can no longer return
and then go off again. Sick pay is in a rolling period.

absolute bollocks

There is no way a trust is accepting of 33 absences in a year.

This can be v true. I work in the nhs and vividly remember a nurse telling the patient off for planning to go back to work immediately as ‘he must prioritise his health’. When she left he told me he was the only earner as his wife had had a stroke at 33 and he had 4 kids. It’s easy to say take the time you need etc when it’s well paid.

Again as an nhs staff member who rarely goes off sick it is irritating when people take months and months off , particularly when it’s stress due to to workload which you then have to take on so effectively have double the work load but couldn’t go off sick or patients are left in the lurch. Maybe when I’m older I’ll be the same but o hope not

It shocks me how much time off the NHS records as sick. No other business could function like thus.

I've worked in the NHS for over 10 years and I've never know anyone to take the piss like this. If anything, I've seen the opposite - people going into work when they really, really shouldn't be. Especially if it's not something contagious. Most people I have worked with worry about having too much time off ill.

Maybe it just depends on the workplace culture.

It’s interesting because I see so many posts on here about people ’signed off for stress’ in various industries but know nobody who’s done that over 15 years
working in an ICU.

Are you in a clinical area?

Even more interesting is that I’d be sacked if my employer found me posting like this. Do you not have a code of conduct with provisions around social media?