To be absolutely fed up with NHS staff off sick

[njg616]

I manage a small team and have had several staff take the complete biscuit with sickness.

One took a year off before retirement - we couldn't recruit until she handed in her notice.

One got a similar job while off sick for 6 months, she then went off sick in her new job

Another got the job 'to cover her bills while she recovered from bunion surgery'

Currently I have someone off sick with a history of long and short term sickness. Has been off sick for half the time she's been in her post- 6 months. I follow policy, and refer her to HR who keep giving her more chances.

I find many staff use their NHS salaries while off sick as their sponsorship to do other things in their lives. This cannot be a good use of public funds especially with how things are at the minute.

These staff would not last a minute in the private sector. Sickness records don't seem to matter which to me is a huge indication of a person's commitment and reliability

If she had worked previously in the NHS for another Trust she would have continuous service rules applied , so possibly would get the 6months

Its the case for many public service jobs.

Is it any wonder that people want to go sick in the nhs. It is an utter shit show to work for atm. I love my job and hardly go sick but tbh i get why people do!

Treat them better, Maybe they wont get sick so
Much from burn out

Remember the very recent thread about teenagers being 'snowflakes' about mental health issues. It's funny how so many posters think teens lack resilience where the stats on NHS 'sick leave' with mental health issues are shocking. Anyone that thinks it is not related to the fact that the NHS is heavily unionised is mistaken.
Some NHS staff are definitely working in unreasonable conditions for unreasonable pay but, unfortunately, I think there are a lot of NHS employees who are taking the piss.
I don't work in the NHS but several of my immediate family do.

Where is yout info on nhs staff calling in sick on Christmas day? In my team this would be looked at ASAP and doesn't happen...it's an agreed day,quite often 12momths in advance...

It’s really difficult to manage intermittent sickness absence. 4 episodes in 6 months triggers a process but there are 3 stages of monitoring lasting 3-6 months each. These stages reset back to zero if the person doesn’t trigger. Then they trigger again and round and round you go. I’ve had a few people get to stage 3, by which time it’s a chronic problem and occupational health then class it as a disability.

We’ve had people go on round the world trips while off on full sick pay for 6 months. Good for their recovery say HR. Not so good for their colleagues to see them visiting all the sites on social media while they pick up the slack and work hours of unpaid overtime to cover.

Some people really manage to max out their allowance, inc 7 days paid carers leave a year.

I’m always amazed at those of us who quietly prop up the service and take minimal absence. Luckily we do outnumber the sicknotes. It’s a shame because it’s been really helpful in supporting people with cancer and other serious illness.

My DD was in the NHS, she had several episodes of sickness, 3x Covid and one of flu and a couple where she simply didn't feel able to come in.

The stress she and her entire team were under was huge, she left, most of her uni cohort no longer work in the NHS either, just 3 years since they qualified.
In Aus now, same job, far better pay, smaller case loads, loves her job again.

You ve no idea how lack of staff & poor staff retention is wrecking the treatment offered, my DD wasn't even in a hospital but community stroke and then neuro.

Patient case load is never ending and just 26 days leave, isn't enough down time for the work they are expected to do and when they get home, its out with the PC and write up notes, all for some TOIL.

Going off sick is the only way they can cope.

@ReformMyArse tbh you sound very much like some of the band 7s my DD worked with and why she left and many others left the NHS

Not necessarily

I worked for the NHS for ten years in one trust before moving to another trust

While they were prepared to honour the length of continuous service for my annual leave, it was another thing entirely for my sick leave

I fucked my knee falling over on the ice during Lockdown and couldn't do my physical cleaning job

As I had worked for the trust for less than a year, they gave me one month's full pay, followed by one month's half pay and then it became SSP and a single contribution from my union

It is entirely at the discretion of the individual trust

I found another job, back in my old trust pretty quickly, as my old department were short staffed and desperate enough to take me on as a bank worker

@Gingernaut Thats awful but then again, hardly surprising, imho the NHS haven't a clue how to manage and look after its staff.

My DD ended up on a sickness investigation for getting ill treating patients with CV and Flu, whilst the NHS didn't give her PPE...

Its a joke organisation.

I can see both sides of this...work public sector and have barely been off a day in 20+ years. Recently became very ill, needed an extended period off (not 6 months, but around 2 months).
If I'd been wfh, sedentary job, no commute etc I'd have been able to get back weeks earlier. I wouldn't have been better but I could have dragged myself through it.
But in a busy, on the feet all day, dealing with people job...no way.
In the end I probably went back too soon, and am still paying the price.
My point is, going back to work in a public facing NHS job is a whole different ball game.
Long covid, stress, MSK issues all take their toll in a way they don't if you're sitting at home all day

I've got asthma

I now work in a new trust (same pay band 2, so hardly living the high life) in a cramped open plan office

If one person catches a cold, we all do and I've had Covid this year too

My trust, like many others, uses the Bradford Scoring System

Even though my chronic illness is recorded, if I take one more round of sickness before the end of next January, I'll be reported and sanctioned

I would love to work in one of the trusts where people swing the lead and milk their sick leave

I manage a small team in a NHS hospital and could have written this myself.

I worked in the private sector for 30 years before starting with the NHS in 2020.
I have never before worked with a team where so many are off 'sick'. Totally play the system. It's cultural - NHS endemic.
Starting a new career in September. Can't wait to escape this place and the shoddy work ethic.

I feel your pain. I manage a team of 25 and I have about 4 who love to play the sick pay policy.
public sector and HR do very little.
For those saying OP has no understanding of sickness, we know our staff and we know who is genuine and who is not.
its far too easy to play the system.

High time sick pay in the public sector was reduced to line up with the private sector

I'm part of a small NHS admin team and there's an absolute piss taker on our team. She spends more time off longterm sick several times a year than she spends at work.
I've been there for 7 years and this colleague goes off sick EVERY YEAR in late November and comes back early February. She also goes off sick every summer for the entire school holidays (but starts her "sickness" a couple of weeks before school shuts, and finishes her sickness a couple of week after schools go back).
Whilst off sick, she posts on Facebook shamelessly about all her nights out, family and friends get togethers, sports events and holidays. Everyone from work can see and actually "like" her posts, including senior managers.
I think this colleague has a lot of drama happening outside of work, complicated family dynamics, single parent to young children and so on..

I am very similar having been in the private sector and moved into the NHS. My team that I inherited did also have high sickness levels and I dealt with it very quickly and applied the policy. Sickness dropped from nearly 10% pa to 1.2% last month.

Things that happened were going sick after arriving back from holiday late and feeling tired!
The problem is many managers won't apply the sickness policy and instead of them being also placed on capability, they are allowed to get away with it.

Also, doctors. The consultants and SAS doctors are allowed to not even record their sick!

Wes Steeeting has plenty to look at but he won't....will be all words

This is the thing - the policy is there, so apply it. There shouldn't be such huge levels of disparity in how it is applied across the NHS. That is the solution, not a race to the bottom in terms of providing sick pay. Sick pay rates in the private sector make people come to work ill and spread their germs.

Shouldn't compare sick rates with the private sector, if i'm needing a HCP, i don't want one turning who is ill.

I could come into work with a heavy cold because i wasn't in close proximity with frail/v ill people.

Address the working conditions in the NHS if you want to improve the rates of off work sickness with stress etc.

Where my DD in Plymouth, sickness policy is enforced, it was also enforced in the 3 trusts she did her placements and rotations in too.

@Alexandra2001 . It was well known who was taking the piss. Been a farce for too long. Not an issue about being patient facing either. The whole ethos was that sickness was an extension of annual leave and I made it perfectly clear that I would be following the trust policy and not ignoring it. Texting in that they were tired after holiday was a joke and happened far too often. When I granted unpaid leave instead of sick leave it stopped that scam as well.

In the private sector, someone that spent that amount of time sick would be sacked very quickly unless there was good reason. The NHS is utterly riddled with all sorts of scams that mean people don't do what they are paid for.

This includes consultants who also manage to do their private practice when off sick, or should be working doing their admin but instead are operating in the local private hospital. Not one senior manager dares challenge them. Is just utter fraud.

@MarieG10 Like i said, its not my DD experience of 3 trusts, yours sound like an outlier.

As average rates for NHS are consistently just above 5%... with the Ambulance service the highest of those front line staff.

Stress etc is the most common reason, not being tired after a holiday.

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates

Doctors actually have the lowest rates of all staff at 2%

That's not my experience either. Your Trust looks like an outlier, and of course the CQC does also look at staff sickness/absence rates when making their judgements. I've worked in three out of my Trust's 4 directorates and across multiple teams and if anything what I've seen is a too rigorous application of the Bradford scale (i.e. counting absence due to injuries sustained in a car crash rather than using a bit of common sense, similar lack of common sense in supporting staff members who had cancer).

The reason is that doctors rates are so low is because it is so frequently not electronically recorded in many trusts, particular at Consultant level and therefore not counted. NHS England knows this full well

Look, you want to bash staff, but maybe try to be more balanced in your criticism?

My DD told last night how she received vile abuse from a patient..... another punched in face recently, another one of sick with Covid that wont shift, when my mum was a nurse, had a terrible back injury due to turning patients.

The rates are recorded, hence the figures from NHS Digital.

Reminds me of the time I asked my GP to give me a note so I didn’t have to run to arrest calls at 38 weeks pregnant. I got an ear bashing about how feckless, lazy and just generally useless I was! Never got the note.

Where I work now the nurses run a system called ‘ailing days’ where they roster off their untaken sick leave so no one is short. I am not in the nhs!