How do you manage this situation with empathy?

[Preps]

Two women, working in very close partnership. Basically the only people, apart from service users, in the same room all day everyday.

One is pregnant, the other on her third (and likely final) round of IVF.

The one who isn't pregnant is clearly in significant distress, but this is coming out as her being truly vile to the pregnant one, who is basically being bullied for being pregnant, a protected characteristic.

Pregnant colleague does understand how hard it must be and is trying to be tactful, but also wants to enjoy her pregnancy.

So the behaviour against the protected characteristic needs to be managed, but the other colleague is really struggling too.

TBH I think the best answer is probably that the non-pregnant woman is signed off sick, but I don't think I can suggest that.

That's where all this started actually. My boss' first reaction was that pregnant colleague is the lucky one and it's the other who needs/deserves care and consideration, but of course legally that's not correct.

I wouldn't be sending her off sick/ "rewarding" her, she would see her doctor and get signed off, as people would with any other work issue that was making attending work unbearable. IME that's what almost always happens when you start disciplinary anyway.

I'm not avoiding using the disciplinary process, I'm just making sure all options have been considered.

The fact you have given her a verbal warning infers you were out of options.

At that point, the formal disciplinary process is all thats left.

She's had fair warning - now follow through with the disciplinary. Either she will behave (assuming its a final written warning and not summarily sacked), or she will continue to bully/misbehave, at which point, she should be sacked.

Yes all so straightforward, uniform you have any actual experience of implementing your advice you'd know that by far the most likely outcome is she'll go off sick.

A person, even on the sick, can still be made to undergo a disciplinary procedure if there are grounds for it. Bullying is certainly one that no employer would allow to happen unchallenged.

Judging by what you've described, it appears that you have ample grounds to follow that route.

Best of luck and hope you can protect the pregnant employee from the bully.

Keep us informed 👍

Yes of course they can and that's what will happen. But it's not "use the disciplinary process and people will magically behave" as most here seem to think.

Let her go sick. I would then still proceed with disciplinary procedures.

I don't think you've any choice but to follow the disciplinary process for the non-pregnant woman. You also need to think about the future and when the pregnant woman returns to work - is she not going to be able to speak about her child for fear of upsetting her colleague or the colleague bullying her again?

The bully needs to be stopped from bullying - it's not right, regardless of her personal trauma.

Neither of you are up to the job, quite frankly. I hope the pregnant one sues the arse off the company and the management get sent for retraining pronto.
Your posts are downright shocking.

How does considering all/any options make a person not to the job. We know what needs to be done and will do it. It surely can't be a bad thing to want to manage the situation with compassion?

There is some sort of avoidance going on here, why is that? Maybe it's because you are struggling in the management role? You don't like conflict or, you have a personal relationship with the bully outside of work and just can't face disciplining a mate?

It's the weekend. What exactly have I avoided doing over the weekend? [Grin]

I spoke to her informally on Wednesday, behaviour hasn't changed so I'll have to see her again. I'm considering how to manage it on Monday. I know exactly what's required amd will do it, I'm just thinking about any additional support that might be possible.

No I don't have any friendly relationship with either of them and I have followed the process through to dismissal several times before. I'm not avoiding anything, but I do know there's never any harm in being decent in the way you manage staff.

TBH I think the best answer is probably that the non-pregnant woman is signed off sick, but I don't think I can suggest that
Well, this was your first post, op.
It certainly suggests you haven’t the first clue as to how to manage conflict in the workplace.

Have you actually outlined to non-pregnant colleague that her behaviour can and will be managed along the disciplinary route if she doesn't change it?

If not, you need to do that on Monday. Acknowledge how distressing this situation is for her and remind her that she can see her GP if she feels unable to meet workplace expectations either workload or relationship wise.

Explain that you don't want to take this course of action, but you will. Also, that that disciplinary is a stressful process for anyone to go through, and you don't want to add to her stress but you can't avoid doing your job either.

Good luck OP. It does sound really difficult for all concerned, including you.

To handle the conversation on Monday boundaries need to be put in place with the non pregnant employee and clear expectations of improvement. Examples of the bullying need to be discussed and a formal warning in place. I would suggest your empathy should lie with the pregnant employee who is being bullied who is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Can HR assist with this at all?

I think it suggests that OP has managed a LOT of workplace conflict and can anticipate how these things pan out.

Thank you, yes exactly.

She has no ultimate control as to how things pan out.
It doesn’t absolve her of the responsibility to follow proper procedures, It’s not for her (or her boss) to anticipate the outcome.

At no point have I suggested the proper procedure won't be followed. I'm simply considering whether there's anything extra that can be done to resolve the situation.

Are you nhs @Preps ?

In my experience it is flipping hard to manage people out for bullying and management always seem reticent to get the ball rolling because as soon as they have the first meeting, the bully goes off sick for 6-12 months and plays the mental health card on return which makes it even harder.

We have had this on a number of occasions within our small department and two of the bullies are still working and seem untouchable, despite numerous complaints from different staff members and despite losing lots of valued hard working staff. The bullies filed a counter claim against the manager which resulted in the manager being told they were no longer responsible for managing the bullies. It was laughable. They got given a different manager who is now having problems with them.

Another different bully was given a promotion to get them out of the way to minimise the disruption.

As you can imagine, staff morale is wonderful!

Not NHS but similar public sector organisation.

Compassion?

WTH?

Take the pregnancy out of the equation for a moment.

This situ is straight up bullying.

Do you employ compassion when dealing with it?

No. Employers stamp it out (or in least in theory thats what they should do).

You are pussyfooting around and making excuses - stick her on a disciplinary, have a meeting and put her on formal notice - otherwise your verbal warning to her is about as useful as a fart in the wind.

Compassion 🤦‍♂️ Sweet Jesus. 🤦‍♂️

Jesus back at you. We want to retain staff, we want productive staff not on sick leave. Yes, if we can manage the situation with compassion all round, of course that's the best way. I really do wonder how some of these experts manage their staff.

Of course the bullying needs to stop, but telling someone who's hurting that isn't going to make it happen. It's definitely worth considering the possibility that there might be another way, even if the answer is that there's not.

I really don't understand why people want to attack a manager looking out for the welfare of all their staff. It's not like nothing is being /will be done.

"Of course the bullying needs to stop, but telling someone who's hurting that isn't going to make it happen."

Who gives a hoot if she is hurting?

Dont you think the pregnant woman is hurting as a result of being bullied?

Amazed you cant see the difference here.

Well, actually, I can. Otherwise you wouldnt be posting here and show yourself up to be so utterly clueless.

Thank heavens you arent my manager!

Best of luck though, regardless.

tl; dr: the bully shouldn't be punished because of her hurtz feelz.