Therese Coffey 'Nurses can leave if they want to'

[queeniegee]

I for one as a nurse will be voting for industrial action. Therese Coffey 'we will just get nurses from abroad if our nurses choose to leave' beggars belief and shows her utter contempt for nurses AND patients reflecting this government's stance on the general population of this country. They are the nastiest party I remember in living memory. Any nurses out there? What's the consensus?

For reference - a Ward Manager on an acute medical ward in our Trust is a Band 6. Matron, with responsibility for 6 wards, is an 8a. There are no nurses above this level in our hospital.

The vast majority of qualified nurses are Band 5.

Why would that poster be on benefits?

All those saying 27K is enough. You can earn that in Lidl

No, generally speaking you can’t earn that in Lidl - £27k remains aspirational in Lidl

The average Lid salary ranges from approximately £16,367 per year for a Store Assistant to £23,000 per year for a Sales Assistant. The average Lid hourly pay ranges from approximately £10 per hour for a Store Assistant to £12 per hour for a Shift Manager.

27 k is a starting salary. And likely a third higher once extra duty payments are taken into account. I went for a Band 6 post last year- you didn't even need to be a registered nurse it was for a cancer information centre post. There were 2 other people to manage in this job role, giving people advice and managing resources. think the salary was 32- 39k ! Was gutted I didn't get it as I was well qualified for it but as in most NHS jobs it goes to someone's mate.

Im not a nurse but my husband is a Paramedic. Therese Coffey is a fucking disgrace of a human being. It makes me sick that some people stood on the doorstep to clap for the NHS can then slag off the NHS staff or think they don’t need a pay rise. You can’t spend claps!
Nurses and other NHS staff are not valued enough under this government but that’s Tories for you.

I was going on the example of a friend of mine who left nursing and earns well in Lidl.
You are assuming she went in at the lowest level.
She also has procurement experience as she couldnt be direct patient facing during the pandemic.
They snapped her up.

Nope - not at ll assuming entry level at Lidl but averages across various levels, including shift manager

She manages a warehouse team.
The point is she earns more than when she was nursing.
Which is pretty sad but great for her.
Nurses are leaving in droves
Im not sure why you think they cant earn well in other sectors?
The skills are highly transferrable

Comments like:

“Nursing shouldn’t be degree”
“Its a vocation”
“Nurses just carry out doctors orders”,
are just sad, made by misinformed people and designed to keep Nurses down.

Nurses should be paid more and valued as a profession. Hopefully there’s an overwhelming vote to strike. If Nurses can make a change on pay and conditions, hopefully it will help Healthcare workers in general be respected, valued and paid more in the long run.

I think the NHS needs to collapse and healthcare go back to pre NHS.

Only then will we start to value what we have squandered, nurses have seen a real terms cut of about 10% in their take home pay since the mid 90s plus pay for parking (approx 1500)

People need to realise that ALL Govt ministers will have private healthcare and in the cases where that isn't available, they will go straight into a ward, with no waiting.

Coffey et al simply doesn't care, the NHS isn't on her radar, though looking at the size of her, it should be, she must be at huge risk of stroke or heart attack.

queeniegee · Today 08:24
For those who don’t work in healthcare, I wanted to help give some facts and context in support of my nursing friends/colleagues:

• In 2022/23, a newly qualified nurse will leave University with an average student debt of £35k. Most students will have similar debt. According to House of Commons Library the average student debt will be £45k for 2021/22 starters.
• Their starting salary in the NHS will be £27,055. Fairly typical graduate scheme starting salary and not far below uk average annual salary.
• They will pay mandatory £120 for NMC registration to practice every year. professional fees qualify for tax relief. £120 is not out of step with other professions. I accept some employers pay professional fees but not all.
• They will pay between £200-500/yr in parking fees (depending on Trust) before even stepping through the front door. I appreciate shift work means public transport may not be available but there is a push to reduce travel by car. A lot of employees have to pay to get to work/park, my TFL season ticket is £2,812 per annum.
• They will pay £15-£25/month for Union membership and professional indemnity. Again, other professions will pay something similar.
• Their breaks are unpaid. On average they have 2x 30 minute breaks per long-day (13 hour shift) - if they can take them! This is hard but again many professions are not paid for breaks and don’t always get to take them.

• 9% of their gross salary will be taken each month in student loan repayments. It is now estimated most nurses will never pay their student loans off in full under the new loans system, meaning this 9% deduction will continue for the majority of their professional lives until it is written off after 30 years. This applies to all employees.
• After adjustment for inflation, despite the most recent pay deal, nurse’s real wages have dropped by £1583 on average per year since 2011. Nursing pay bands are worth an average 11% less than they were a decade ago. I don’t dispute this but nurses are not alone a lot of public and private employees are in a similar position.
• There are currently thousands of vacancies across the country for nursing jobs, due to years of underinvestment and under recruitment, costing approximately £6 billion/yr in expensive agency staff. This is a concern as unemployment is very low, other sectors are also looking for resource so there is competition for employees. Controlled/targeted immigration is probably necessary to address this.
• An independent study found a 10% pay rise to nursing staff would pay for itself through greater tax income from higher wages, and by reducing the amount of student loans needing to be written off. No reason to doubt this, but would ask about the impact of higher pensions in the future,
• Another study found for every extra patient a nurse is asked to look after beyond a safe amount, the risk of harm increases by 7%. I have often seen nurses looking after patients on a ratio of 12:1. A safe amount would be considered 5:1. Do the maths. This is a valid point and carries the potential of higher compensation being paid due to errors. There is definitely a cost benefit analysis of more nurses = less errors = less compensation.
• Nurses are not greedy. They worked through a grueling pandemic to keep you and our loved ones safe. Over 850 healthcare workers are estimated to have died over the pandemic. Nurses as well have lost colleagues and family members to COVID-19. I would never suggest nurses are greedy, and acknowledge the impact of covid-19 on the profession.
• Please support nurses in the weeks to come and don’t listen to Government propaganda. The recent pay deal amounted to a pay cut in real terms. It is not right that a nurse (or anyone!) should be afraid to put on the heating, or be forced to go to a food bank to provide food for their families. No one should be afraid to put on the heating or to be forced to use a food bank. However, the reality is we will all need to pay more tax to fund pay rises in the NHS, that includes private sector workers in NMW jobs. The biggest help to all low and average paid workers would be to increase the nil rate tax threshold. Those earning over £100k start to lose the threshold I.e £1 for each £2 over £100k.

I am not saying nurses do not deserve a pay rise, but it has to be realistic in the current climate. Using arguments e.g. student loans, travel costs etc. that are not unique to nurses doesn’t help when other sectors are also suffering similar issues around pay.

To me the priority for the NHS is filling vacancies.

Their starting salary in the NHS will be £27,055. Fairly typical graduate scheme starting salary and not far below uk average annual salary.

Not a fair comparison. Most graduates go on to earn much higher wages later in their careers. The majority of nurses won't increase their pay above £35-40k in their whole career.

What other jobs do you have to work 13hour shifts with 30 minutes lunch break and you have to pay for parking and work Christmas day? Your having a bloody laugh it's a joke you couldn't pay me to do my nurse training.

Tbf, paying for parking is normal at all workplaces located in a city centre (which is where hospitals tend to be, but also plenty of other employers).

I have never worked for a city centre employer, public or private sector, where I got to park for free. Which is why I've always commuted by a mix of train and cycling.

I am ex-NHS and the NHS is the only place I've ever worked where people seemed to think that paying for parking is unusual.

It isn't. I promise you.

I'm not someone who advocates a race to the bottom (I fully support the strikes), but let's not pretend that other city centre employers normally provide free parking.

Doctor here. Absolutely disgusted by this. You have total support xxx

Lidl are well paid for graduate entry I think, I remember one of my kids thinking of applying when they were leaving uni and they said it was good money. Their degree was nursing.

Just checked on Glassdoor and it says typical starting salary for a graduate at Lidl is £35k.

I agree. The narrative that nurses are caring angels, driven by a vocation to mop fevered brows, rather than skilled professionals has been detrimental to the profession as a whole.

It's never really helpful to compare graduate starting salaries. What really matters is what the average salary is for that profession 10-15 years down the line. Most nurses will never earn more than 33k whereas many other professionals can expect to be on considerably more

People harp on about Nurses working 12 hour shifts but forget to mention that when doing 12 hour shifts they will get four days off a week for 2 weeks out of 3. Yes the shifts are gruelling but unless you are working overtime, you are not doing any more hours than anyone else working full time. I left Nursing and now work 9-5 every week day with a 45 minute awful commute that I never had when I started Nursing shifts at 7.30 am, and it is just as tiring as doing 3 x 12 hour shifts a week. Also I was a Nurse we saved huge amounts on not having to pay much for childcare as I worked nights and weekends, it was gruelling but suited a family with young kids. I'm not saying 12 hour shifts are easy but just that other working patterns can also be very challenging in different ways.

This is all irrelevant. What is relevant is nurses are leaving in droves and there is a shocking number of vacancies and poor retention. In any other critical workforce this would lead to substantial pay rises to make it more attractive. There is a terrible view in this country that only private sector work is of value and that public sector work is merely a drain.

@Octomore regarding parking. Not all hospitals have 24h public transport available so, yes, if you’re going to finish a shift at God knows what time, I expect you to be able to get into your car and get home and have a rest. (Environmental considerations aside.)

@Babyroobs you say you saved on childcare by doing nights and weekends. When the reality for many is not that they save the money, but it’s the only way they can afford to live and have kids.

I know she’s hardly an advert for taking responsibility for your own health is she? I suppose she’s got private healthcare, but even that won’t help her if she needs emergency care.
All the healthcare professionals need to stand up to her and tell her to fuck off.

I worked as a benefits advisor earnings around 16k and we were based in a Macmilan centre at a large city centre hospital. We still had to pay £7 a day to park at the hospital or have a half hour walk to find free parking.