Therese Coffey 'Nurses can leave if they want to'

[queeniegee]

I for one as a nurse will be voting for industrial action. Therese Coffey 'we will just get nurses from abroad if our nurses choose to leave' beggars belief and shows her utter contempt for nurses AND patients reflecting this government's stance on the general population of this country. They are the nastiest party I remember in living memory. Any nurses out there? What's the consensus?

But I WANT to be a nurse.
I WANT to be an excellent nurse.
Its all I’ve ever wanted to do.

But I can’t be an excellent nurse because it is absolutely impossible.
Its not physically possible to do a good enough job any more.
I AM good at my job, I am 100% focussed on giving my all, without exception to anyone in my care during my 12-13 hours.
I know that I am not because cannot.

THAT is what I want as a shop floor, jobbing nurse on the ground. I’m asking for things to change so I can do that.

Thats all.

‘So you don't want special people caring for you on your death bed then? It takes something special to give care with compassion. But..you've solved the crisis let's just bring people in from the street to do it as it's such an easy job, no specialties needed. Problem solved well done you 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻‘

this exactly !! I’ve just left my nursing career after 20 years … completely run down and disillusioned! My last two years were working in a hospice and yes you need an enormous amount of compassion and skill for this and all nursing roles . I have voted for industrial action. Why on earth do members of the public think they know how to nurse ? 🙄

Quite clear, nothing taken out of context.

Ms Coffey said: “It is their choice of course if they want to do that, but then we also have an open route for people to come into this country who are professional staff.”

no-one should be surprised because Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, Chris Skidmore and Liz Truss laid out what Britain would look like under the Tory party in the book ‘Britannia unchained’.

Their ideal worker is one prepared to work long hours, commute long distances and expect no employment protection and low pay. Their solution to the problem of childcare is unregulated, "informal and cheap childminders"

They argue dramatic cuts are needed in public expenditure and matched by equivalent tax cuts. So running down the NHS to get it to the point of no return is part of their aim because they can sell it off! Voila! They no longer have to fund it from government money.

Love the race to the bottom in these threads. My pay and conditions suck so yours must too. Despicable attitude and maybe something that is finally changing given the numbers on strike or balloting for action this autumn. I fully support nurses. They have our lives in their hands. Of course they should be well paid and supported. As should all health care professionals. As should all of us. This is supposed to be an advanced country nobody should be paid a wage that leaves them scraping to pay bills and mortgage. And that goes double for vital roles like health and education. Full support to workers. It’s not like our bosses or the government are suddenly going to give a fuck about us if we don’t advocate for ourselves.

Nurses got a pay rise last year when many other professions got 1 percent. This they are offered 4 percent. Many people are offered 2 or 3 percent. Inflation is running at about 10 percent. Nurses are asking for 5 percent above inflation so 15 percent. The country just can't afford it and it would push inflation higher again. If nurses got huge pay rise then firefighters, teachers, police, civil servants would all expect the same. On average a nurse earns £36 and has opportunities for promotion after reaching this level. Staff in Tesco are on close to minimum wage so I don't get the idea of nurses want more money go to work at Tesco argument. Probably less stress but not more money. I think each nurse has to decide for themselves after working to qualify do they want to continue with nursing or leave to do something that earns more money. I'm sure no one went into nursing thinking they would get rich. So went into profession with eyes wide open. I'm not sure why but there are a lot of nurses from Philippines. All the ones I have encountered seem professional and kind. I would not mind recruiting more of these to fill some of the nursing vacancies. If Therese Coffee can do that she will be helping NHS. Last year she was in charge of DWP and did not give pensioners more than 3 percent so I don't see her backing down for nurses. She seems very stubborn.

I’m not a nurse.

I fully support these strikes. 27k might be a good starting salary in some places but here in London can they even afford to rent on that?

If I get ill I want my nurses (all HCA) to be happy and well numerated, not rushed off their feet or exhausted because they are constantly worrying about money/bills.

I don’t think they should have tuition fees debt either, maybe have it written off pro rata for each year of service?

from what I can tell at the moment we have poor retention and huge vacancies so as with most industries the role/pay/T&Cs need improving to attract people.

In short, I support you and other Public Service strikers regardless of being pub Sec or not.

Absolutely loving the comments from people going 'im private sector and havnt had a payrise in 10 years'
Er.... more fool you? So because you havnt got it, noone else should have it?
Also the reason nurses should get paid more than engineers is because a nurse is directly responsible for a human life. How the fuck is that hard to understand. And dont come back to me saying 'lives are at risk if engineers dont do their jobs properly' its an incredibly small subset of engineers who work in immediate life or death situations.

Absolutely.
What is also happening is that nurses qualify, see the conditions on the wards and go to other areas like the community or research.
Those that do stay have had enough after a couple of years and go off to CNS, support roles, research,ICU ( legal minimum nurse/ pt ratios)or private.

So we have a very junior, unskilled workforce on our wards and its a revolving door .
Brexit saw a mass exit and no further employment.
Many of those from the EU came in as cleaners, HCAs etc and worked their way up, really hard workers but now they dont come.
As regards Overseas nurses, the Phillipines has all but stopped nurse migration and Zimbabwe, Ghana and Nigeria are all in the process of making it very difficult.
The ethical and economic consequences of nurse migration for these countries is catastrophic.
Im in a state of shock currently.
I cant believe she actually said that.
The conditions are so bad with patients in my trust being moved out of their beds in the night into the corridor, ambulances sitting outside for hours.
Its impossible to get a GP appointment, my elderly mother became so unwell after weeks of trying that in the end they sent a paramedic car.
She was in kidney failure which should have been picked up weeks earlier.
There is no recourse,no responsibility, just shrugging and blame.

She is vile. I stand with the nurses and would absolutely support a strike. I used to be a hospital HCA and saw the pressure nurses were under.

I am a Social Worker and I think we face similar challenges but do not have the same level of coverage that nurses do; we are less popular! 😂 But we also make life or death decisions, are blamed when things go wrong etc. In real terms, our salaries have gone down in 20 years and we hold unsafe case loads.

I think that all public sector workers - nurses and other HCP, teachers, Social Workers, carers (and many more, the list is endless) and yes Police too should take strike action. I can’t speak for other professions I don’t know about but I believe in the right to strike.

No - we just recognise that other jobs, on lower pay, also save lives and / or are an integral part of tbe workforce without which society could not function. Pandemic taught us tbat. They are the unsung heroes and not clapped and venerated to tbe rafters

No - we just recognise that other jobs, on lower pay, also save lives and / or are an integral part of tbe workforce without which society could not function. Pandemic taught us tbat. They are the unsung heroes and not clapped and venerated to tbe rafters

< now quoting tbe correct post, I think >

Fully agree

Why on earth do members of the public think they know how to nurse ? 🙄

Tbh because everytime my DS has been in hospital I've done 90% of the nursing. I struggle with the angels narrative when I know most of the time I've corrected doses reminded nurse's to give pain killers etc

I don't agree morally with stripping nurses from other countries but I am struggling to see the point of the nurses strike. I look at the "aren't the conditions so terrible" cut and paste and wonder what is so terrible about a 27k starting salary and costs comparable to other areas with a salary of that amount. And it really shouldn't be a degree level job which would eradicate the fees. Either that or we should be wiping the debt after so many (10) years service in the NHS.

There's a labour shortage generally. Many care staff are doing the same as nurses for a fraction of the cost but arent really unionised so cant strike.

I'm not sure either nurses union or government have got this one right

Because as stated by another mumsnetter here .. the ethical and economic consequences of nurse migration for these countries is catastrophic .. it may help the NHS but where's the social conscience? It's like going back to the days of the Raj .. we are ok Jack let's plunder the little countries ...

If you compare nursing pay to other similar roles in society that make a difference to peoples lives, all professions that require a university degree and registration with professional body.
So where I am in Scotland main grade nurses (band 5) earn 26k - 33k, social worker main grade 33-38k, teacher main grade 28-42k. It's not so much the starting salary but the fact that the majority of nurses with many years experience will not earn more than 33k. They may well be weighing this up when considering a career

Nurses dont want to be clapped and venerated , just their skill recognised.
Poor pay and conditions means nurses leave or dont become nurses in the first place.
The nurse training in the UK has been decimated and bursaries removed.
Fewer nurses means we have increasingly complex needs with a junior, unskilled workforce.
The higher the nurse patient ratio the greater the riskits not rocket science
There is no legal minimum safe staffing level , its disgraceful

Safe staffing saves lives

People would do well to remember it’s not just nurses.

im an AHP in the NHS. Many of us are leaving to go private

PPs might want to wonder why there are currently 40k? unfilled vacancies even without further nurses leaving the profession if it's so easy to import workers? We can't fill our nurse/HCA/ANP roles and I've trawled through the applications from nurses and doctors from overseas and interviewed the applicants and spent years supporting workers from abroad coming to terms with a different health care system, roles and autonomy. Many are great and hard working and many are not and many cannot operate in autonomous roles.

PPs might also wonder if such 'lucky to have a job' messaging were a priority to engage the HCP professions even if nurses were an easily importable commodity. Busy working long hours doing the day job and 'flu clinics and COVID boosters and home visits while the practice has reduced income, massive energy and other bills and staff who've have c30% pay cuts from 2010 - 2020 with recent inflation further eroding income on top. And on the back of two years of managing COVID and working practices and staff ill from COVID and now COVID infection rates ramping up. Have early career GPs leaving the profession entirely and two local practices handing back their contracts and a SOS doubling down on 'lucky to have a job, you're all replaceable' only if you understood the system you'd realise the HCPs leaving are not.

Those who take on more risk in their role generally command higher salaries. Nurses maintain lives following doctor's instructions or routine. There is limited critical decision making involved and, where there is, the responsibility lies with those more senior. Hence doctors and surgeons are paid more.

If nurses (and other pub service staff) salaries had kept up with inflation, maybe they would have sucked up current inflation out of goodwill.

However, over the past 12 years pay awards have been minimal and conditions deteriorated.

The country didn’t give them one when it could afford it, so why shouldn’t they ask for one now?

FYI (again) I’m not a nurse, but I want my healthcare in good condition in case I need it.

And it really shouldn't be a degree level job which would eradicate the fees.

☝️ literally 😳 are you a nurse? Do you know what nurse's jobs entail now? Do you understand the level of responsibility there is? Even at -- or PARTICULARLY at Band 5 level - this is a shockingly ignorant statement. Nurses are prescribers now! They are no longer the hand maidens of olde.. they run wards and hospitals. They make decisions (imagine that!) they are absolutely vital to good clinical patient outcomes. They support junior (and in my case senior) doctors in their own fields of excellence- get with it. Nurses not only need degrees but are now routinely getting their Masters - and even oh shock - PhD

I started nursing in the late '80s, when the tories were trying to run the NHS into the ground - couldn't even get soap to wash patients with.
So thank you for the invitation, Therese Coffey, I'll be taking your advice and leaving the NHS. Hope you don't need anyone to nurse you in the future.

You’re absolutely right, it’s not just nurses. It’s also AHPs and HCAs who are woefully undervalued and are in the same place. It’s also Midwives who tend to get swept under the same banner as Nurses who are a profession in their own right.

DH is a teacher. The problems education and healthcare face are remarkably similar.

Those who take on more risk in their role generally command higher salaries. Nurses maintain lives following doctor's instructions or routine. There is limited critical decision making involved and, where there is, the responsibility lies with those more senior. Hence doctors and surgeons are paid more.

See my comment earlier. Dear God you don't work in the sector. Nurses often pick doctors up on errors - we prescribe - we actually make critical decisions and are not only degree educated but shock horror getting our masters and even phDs - imagine!