Feeling discriminated against for being a mother

[SassyS89]

I have been at my current job for 2 months. I am enjoying working for the company and enjoying the work that I do, however, something was mentioned to me today which is making me have doubts.

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare and I said my kids go after school club 2 days a week on the days I work from the office, and I'm not with their dad and he's not the most cooperative person but I make it work. I mentioned that my mother is not in the best of health so I do not call on to look after the kids often as I don't want to put a lot of pressure on her.

Today I had a mid probation meeting with my manager. My feedback was good and my work has no cause for concern. However, there's concern for my childcare arrangements as my kids don't go to after school club 5 days a week (I work 2 days from the office/3 WFH) so I can't go into the office at the drop of a hat, and they're concerned because I work from home with the kids in the house even though my work isn't affected.

When WFH I take 30 mins lunch and use the other 30 mins to collect the kids from school. I have to get approval to be away from the desk for 30 mins to do this (which I was not aware of but I have got 'school run/out of office' in my outlook calendar during the 30 mins period).

My manager mentioned that I apparently took 2-3 hours to reply to someone, but I have no idea of who this was and when this happened. I was shocked as this does not sound like me at all. My manager then asked me if I took long to reply because I was dealing with the kids, to which I replied that I couldn't comment because I don't know when it happened. My manager then said that the company are concerned that me working with my kids in the house is affecting my communication.

I said that I don't think there is any cause for concern at all, and while it isn't easy working with kids present I've been doing it since last year feb/march so I'm used to it. My manager then said I can't compare last year to this year, because we were forced to WFH last year but now things are back to normal.

My manager is now going to speak to HR to see if there are any resources that could 'help' and has put as an objective before the end of my probation to 'sort out childcare arrangements'.

Does this sound right?

Sorry for the long post but I am pissed off.

Frankly, if your children are young enough to need picking up each day (assuming they aren't 15yo and at school miles away) then no, you shouldn't expect to be able to WFH with no childcare in place.

However, I'm one of those people who would lie and say the kids were booked into a club if I had no other choice AS LONG AS you are absolutely certain your kids are not disrupting your work.

I think that it's standard practice to not allow WFH while caring for children except in extraordinary circumstances. That would include during the pandemic while schools and other childcare was closed, or as a one-off if they've been sent home with chicken pox or whatever, but not three days a week in normal circumstances, for children young enough to be in after school clubs.

(Secondary school/teenaged children are different)

Saying "it isn't easy working while kids are present" is pretty much owning up to the fact that you've got divided attention.

No they aren't being unreasonable. If you had formally agreed to always work the same days from home, and to have 30 minutes to do the school run then everyone is clear on expectations and if they were content with having children in the background whilst working for a few hours 3 days a week then cool. As that isn't the case, you should sort something.

You can't just take your 1 hour lunch throughout the day, broken down at your leisure.

You need to make childcare arrangements if your employer believes it's impacting your work.

They expect you to work the hours they pay you for, that’s not discrimination. If you can’t do a school run during your office days, you can’t expect to do it during your WFH days. If you agree with the manager beforehand that’s ok of course.

I would share far far less with your work about your domestic arrangements. They don't need to know what your ex does and what your mother can or can't do.

I think it depends on the age of your children and possibly the nature of your work. I have a 9 yo who is (very!) happy to go on screens for a couple of hours after school pick up and won't bother me much but if you have a 5 and 7 year olds for example, I think it'd be much trickier to manage them and work effectively and it could add up to basically an entire working day of patchy work/concentration (3 x 2.5 hours).

I don't think it's fair of your work to mention this one "late" email though without specifying who it was from/to and giving you a chance to actually check the circumstances. sounds like they're clutching at straws a bit with that to find evidence that the childcare issue is affecting you.

Thank you all for your comments. It isn't a requirement to work from the office on set days. Most people work from the office on days when they feel like it. I only chose specific days to make it easier for childcare purposes. Even if I registered my kids for after school club, 5 days a week, it is not guaranteed that they would even get a place, and that would be out of my control. I mentioned I have friends that help out when needed but I can't and wouldn't expect them to collect my kids 5 days a week. But thank you, I take all your comments on board.

It’s not discrimination.
It’s expected that during your working hours you are working, not looking after children.
It’s standard across all businesses. Last year was different as there was no choice but all childcare places are open now.

Yes it can seem frustrating but it’s standard in the same way someone’s performance would be reviewed if their output has changed. Male or female it wouldn’t matter.

@bakingdemon I agree. At least I know for next time. The head asked me if I was still with my kids dad, and what he works as but I guess I didn't think the info would be used in this way

Honestly I would just put them into after school club every day. I think it’s completely unreasonable to expect to work whilst looking after children.

The pandemic was an exception as most childcare was unavailable, but things are getting back to normal and it’s not reasonable to keep juggling.

Even if I registered my kids for after school club, 5 days a week, it is not guaranteed that they would even get a place, and that would be out of my control.

Then you need a childminder because it's not your employer's problem

No mistake jobs would not be ok with you looking after children during working hours. Or caring for an elderly relative. Or keeping an eye on a box set as well as work.

I don't use child care for aftershock as my youngest is now 11. Walks himself home, says hi and needs no supervision at all.

Some places are more flexible and allow split lunches or late lunches to do the school run. Yours obviously don't.

It appears you have made some presumptions about what your employer allows when wfh and just ran with it, assuming it's OK.

On the other hand, they have early expressed what is or isn't allowed you either.

girlmom21 I did not say it was my employer's problem. I said that I make things work regardless of my situation. My kids used to go to a childminder before she retired a couple years ago, then they did not gel with the childminder they went to afterwards. Not that I should have to explain myself

Too late now you've told them all that. Their attitude is shitty.

It seems to me that you are possibly not making a very good impression because this seems like a very thin excuse to pick on.

I think you should be able to work flexibility but as they don't let you you'd better get child care in place.

I have 7yo and 11yo and whilst the after school club has been closed ALL LAST YEAR(!!!) I have picked up and then WFH in pretty much the arrangement you describe. It has been awful for getting work done and meant me doing many late nights catching up. Soooo great now they are back at club. Thought it seemed like a waste of money for the older one who could walk home and be no trouble but it's better all round they have fun, we keep our place so I can go into the office when working there resumes again, I get peace and quiet and no school run at 3pm which was such a waste of time.

Get your name down for after school club. Let work know you are taking them seriously. Ask for other tips as to what else you could be doing to improve in your new role. Make a good impression. Hopefully turn things around and not have a short period of employment on your resume.

Seems like the information you shared has been used against you, however if your kids are young enough to find it 'not easy to work with kids present', then you do need to make alternative arrangements so that they are not present. How old are they?

If they can't get a place at after school club then you can't just wash your hands of it and say tough luck to your employer. It's your problem, not theirs. Look for other childcare or solutions, childminder, nanny, swap childcare with another parent, could you offer to work another hour or two one day in return for finishing an hour or two earlier another day.

It is quite normal for employers to stipulate that you must have adequate childcare in place if you are wfh. Last year was an exception, things are more back to normal now and it's not unreasonable for them to expect you not to be looking after young children whilst working.

For the record, my kids are 8 and 6 and I'm a secretary. I give them their tablets sometimes for the last couple of hours I'm working and it's fine. But I'll look into registering the kids 5 days a week

@SassyS89

For the record, my kids are 8 and 6 and I'm a secretary. I give them their tablets sometimes for the last couple of hours I'm working and it's fine. But I'll look into registering the kids 5 days a week

But it's not fine, is it?

Your kids are very young to sit another toom unsupervised for a couple of hours.

I get it, I worked full time as a single mum and not in a wfh job.

It hard to juggle. But wfh isn't there to reduce your childcare bill.

To be fair it’s not just you. Very unlikely pull you up for one 2h late reply. This is something must see all time where some working from home means less work or not being in touch. Hand on heart once back after school run you not once leaving your desk? Plus with 13 weeks holiday a year without any sickness it may not feel fair but that’s a lot of hours where you may not be 100% on job.

They don't sit in another room so I can see and hear what they are doing. And even if they was in another room, my flat is not big so I could still hear what is going on.

You mention that you WFH with children in the background since March last year; but you also say that you've only been in your current job for two months. So (1) you have a new manager who doesn't know your past good performance; (2) you might even be in a new company where they have different attitudes; and (3) as others said, 2020 was an exceptional situation.

Your current manager is concerned that you could under-perform due to distractions in those afternoon hours when you find it "not easy to work".

Did you mention these childcare arrangements when being interviewed for the new job? That you would need to split your lunch-hour on three days because you need to clock off mid-afternoon for a school run? Or did you presume that it would be okay ...

What would you do if they asked you to work from the office for five days a week (i.e. if they revoked the option for agile working)?

Childcare issues aside, how is taking 2 hours late to reply to an email! That is a bit of a red flag for their company culture to me.

Woah I find this really odd. But I’m truly blessed where I work.

You were asked about childcare in a 1:1? To me this is so strange in any other fashion than small talk? And it was brought up again? What you’ve said has been used against you, mark of a dodgy work place.

2/3 hrs to reply to someone is fast where I work? But I guess it’s role dependent. 48 hrs would be standard unless OOO.

I’d watch what you say to an employer like this, it might be the case of them giving you rope to hang yourself, same with relatives who need care.

Might be worthwhile to look at maybe a childminder, extra club days, playing at a friends until work is over or if you have any family that can supervise or maybe a babysitter to supervise whilst you finish your wfh

They sound like crappy employers. Something like this would piss me off - v glad that my workplace are more understanding. In return I offer flexibility and work weekends and late if required.

At 8 and 6 you need childcare. I've seen a few threads like this lately and I don't get it. Even if you're WFH, you should be working as if you were in the office. I don't think people should be swanning off for school pick up and working whilst also looking after kids at the same time. Is this a new thing since Covid school/childcare closures - did people just stop/never start using proper childcare?

I have a 6yr old. My work pattern means I finish early for school pick up a few days a week. On the days I'm working the whole day my child is at after school club. The only time I ever worked and looked after DC at the same time is when school/after school club was closed due to Covid.