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Original poster

Feeling discriminated against for being a mother

106 replies

SassyS89 · 27/10/2021 16:17

I have been at my current job for 2 months. I am enjoying working for the company and enjoying the work that I do, however, something was mentioned to me today which is making me have doubts.

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare and I said my kids go after school club 2 days a week on the days I work from the office, and I'm not with their dad and he's not the most cooperative person but I make it work. I mentioned that my mother is not in the best of health so I do not call on to look after the kids often as I don't want to put a lot of pressure on her.

Today I had a mid probation meeting with my manager. My feedback was good and my work has no cause for concern. However, there's concern for my childcare arrangements as my kids don't go to after school club 5 days a week (I work 2 days from the office/3 WFH) so I can't go into the office at the drop of a hat, and they're concerned because I work from home with the kids in the house even though my work isn't affected.

When WFH I take 30 mins lunch and use the other 30 mins to collect the kids from school. I have to get approval to be away from the desk for 30 mins to do this (which I was not aware of but I have got 'school run/out of office' in my outlook calendar during the 30 mins period).

My manager mentioned that I apparently took 2-3 hours to reply to someone, but I have no idea of who this was and when this happened. I was shocked as this does not sound like me at all. My manager then asked me if I took long to reply because I was dealing with the kids, to which I replied that I couldn't comment because I don't know when it happened. My manager then said that the company are concerned that me working with my kids in the house is affecting my communication.

I said that I don't think there is any cause for concern at all, and while it isn't easy working with kids present I've been doing it since last year feb/march so I'm used to it. My manager then said I can't compare last year to this year, because we were forced to WFH last year but now things are back to normal.

My manager is now going to speak to HR to see if there are any resources that could 'help' and has put as an objective before the end of my probation to 'sort out childcare arrangements'.

Does this sound right?

Sorry for the long post but I am pissed off.

OP posts:

GiltEdges · 27/10/2021 18:24

Even if I registered my kids for after school club, 5 days a week, it is not guaranteed that they would even get a place, and that would be out of my control.

It also still wouldn't be your employer's problem Your attitude is frankly baffling. If you can't nip out of work on the days you're in the office to collect your kids from school and bring them back to work with you until you finish, what made you think it was okay to do this on the days you WFH?

Doyoumind · 27/10/2021 18:25

Had the pandemic not happened I'm quite sure you wouldn't be here now saying it was OK to wfh with an 8 and a 6 year old in the house. During lockdown it was accepted kids were around but now that childcare is available again, you have to use it. Having them at home for a couple of hours three days a week isn't OK. Your employer is paying for your full attention. I say this as a single mum who works full time.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 27/10/2021 18:30

@SassyS89

Regarding the email situation, the words used were 'there was an occasion where you didn't reply back to a message for 2 or 3 hours'. When I questioned this my manager said that was the feedback that was given. She then asked me if I took that long to reply because I was dealing with my kids. I said I could not comment as I did not know when this happened. I wasn't told who gave this feedback or what day/time this happened

🤦🏼‍♀️

Oh dear. This was not the right thing to say! You should have said that without knowing when the incident occurred you can't confirm what did cause the hold up, but it would absolutely not have been anything to do with the children.

Mojoj · 27/10/2021 18:30

Your mistake was giving out way too much info. It's none of your manager's business what your childcare arrangements are. If your work is up to scratch then that should be all that matters. Next time it comes up just say you need 30 mins to pick up kids which you will take from your lunch hour. And if you're asked, say you drop them off at childminder.

Kettletoaster · 27/10/2021 18:37

If you are employed say on a 9-5 work pattern, you should be working those hours - not looking after your kids. Put your kids in after school club . Problem solved.

Original poster

SassyS89 · 27/10/2021 18:41

Thanks all. Like I've already said, I'll look into putting the kids into childcare full time

OP posts:

Cloverforever · 27/10/2021 18:47

Not all schools have after school clubs. Mine didn't.

CreepySpider · 27/10/2021 18:59

@Cloverforever

Not all schools have after school clubs. Mine didn't.

But that’s not your employer’s problem. It would be up to you to find someone else to provide childcare eg a childminder or family member etc, or else work hours that don’t clash.

DelphiniumBlue · 27/10/2021 19:00

@girlmom21

You can't just take your 1 hour lunch throughout the day, broken down at your leisure.

You need to make childcare arrangements if your employer believes it's impacting your work.

Why not? What difference does it make to anyone else whether her lunch hour is in 2 segments or not? What about people who take a 15 minute brreak in the morning and afternoon to get a coffee/have a fag/stretch their legs/go to the loo? If you work from home ( and employers benefit from that) and are flexible when it suits the employer, a bit of flexibility in return is appropriate, assuming the work gets done and colleagues are not being forced to cover. Only you will know if having the children at home while you are working impacts your performance. If they are, say 8 &10, they can probably watch TV /entertain themselves for a few hours. If they are 4 & 6, they will need more input. Are management correct when they suggest your work is impacted? The important question is, can you afford additional child care if necessary, and is it available? If you are talking 20 quid per child per day, for ASC, then that is a lot of extra money to find. Will work be assisting with the cost of that? It might be worth checking their written policies re WFH and childcare.

Boshmama · 27/10/2021 19:17

I think you need a new employer. I now work for myself but my husband works for a big company in quite a senior role and this level of flexibility is a given. His boss (the md) will often call while he is waiting to pick the kids up. My husband will wear baby DS in a sling while he works and has a break at 5.30 to have dinner with the kids.

He will also work until 1am sometimes, travel abroad at the drop of a hat, take 7am meetings etc.

Surely we are past the age of being chained to a desk 8 hours a day? Flexibility is a win win for everyone and should be standard. I can’t believe the backwards views on this post.

RandomMess · 27/10/2021 19:24

I think 6 and 8 is too young and they do need supervising.

When my youngest was 9 and in year 5 we stopped using holiday childcare on the 3 x school days per week I worked. It was the end of year 6 before I was working full time and she would pootle home and amuse herself after school whilst DH WFH. He also does a job where nothing is ever that urgent tbh and has flexi time etc.

It's good you are planning to look into full time after school care. Hopefully in a few years you can review it and it also depends on your DC personality and behaviour.

toffeeshock · 27/10/2021 19:28

Mine are the same ages and there’s no way I could wfh effectively with them at home.

girlmom21 · 27/10/2021 19:30

@DelphiniumBlue I said she can't do it at her leisure. Her employer won't know that that's what she'd done. If she'd agreed with them she could split her break into 2 that would be fine, but you can't just keep disappearing 2 months into a new job.

Cantthinkofaname21 · 27/10/2021 19:31

I think a few people have been caught out by this, a friend runs a after-school club and recently noticed a lot a requests coming in for spaces.
Some employers are flexiable some expect you to be available (core hours 9-5). I no longer need afterschool care but I’ve also noticed meetings being put in for 2:30/3pm from different managers maybe my paranoia but it seems the company checking employees availability
It’s frustrating not having a little flexibility but guess they pay your salary :(

Fetarabbit · 27/10/2021 19:32

@Boshmama

He will also work until 1am sometimes, travel abroad at the drop of a hat, take 7am meetings etc.

Surely we are past the age of being chained to a desk 8 hours a day? Flexibility is a win win for everyone and should be standard. I can’t believe the backwards views on this post.

It depends what job you do, for some there needs to be a presence in office hours, flexibility isn't possible for all roles.

HeartsAndClubs · 27/10/2021 19:42

This is why so many companies are moving away from WFH again. Because the reality is that so many people see working from home as a means for them to actually be at home, do some work but live life alongside their working hours, so doing the school run, supervising the kids, etc etc and whether people admit it or not it does affect productivity.

If you’re working from home then you’re working, not looking after the kids, not picking them up from school, not doing the vacuuming etc etc etc you’re working. To all intents and purposes your home environment is the workplace during your contracted hours.

It wouldn’t be ok to rush out of the office, pick up the kids and bring them back to the office to play on their tablets/ask for drinks/a biscuit/want to show you their drawings they did at school, so it’s not ok to do it from home.

Amberflames · 27/10/2021 19:44

@SassyS89

For the record, my kids are 8 and 6 and I'm a secretary. I give them their tablets sometimes for the last couple of hours I'm working and it's fine. But I'll look into registering the kids 5 days a week

Far too young to be unsupervised at home, which is effectively what they should be if you are working properly from home.

I have this exact issue with my PA, only her kids are a few years older. I was flamed on here the other day for suggesting she wasn’t performing as she should be, told it my my fault for either being a poor manager or a bitch to work for. Sounds like your workplace are actually dealing with the issue as they should be.

ChrissyPlummer · 27/10/2021 22:29

@Boshmama

He will also work until 1am sometimes, travel abroad at the drop of a hat, take 7am meetings etc.

Surely we are past the age of being chained to a desk 8 hours a day? Flexibility is a win win for everyone and should be standard. I can’t believe the backwards views on this post.

Quite often those in senior roles are given the flexibility that those lower down the ladder are not. My DH was one below a director in his last job before he retired; if he said he was WFH it wasn’t questioned.

I worked for the same company, two levels below him (not same dept) and when I said I wanted WFH one day a week for a limited time (6 weeks)due to the travelling I was doing on a particular project, it was initially refused until I pointed out they were breaking their own policy (I should have had a hotel as I had 2 hours travel each way) and I’d go to my union. They VERY begrudgingly agreed. All I was doing was collating feedback from the project days so it wasn’t like I needed to be in the office.

Like I said earlier, it can be role-dependent. The building I worked in was owned by a different company and had a receptionist 8-4, she obviously couldn’t WFH and had to be there between those hours.

ulez · 27/10/2021 22:41

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

cuttlefishgame · 27/10/2021 23:16

@SassyS89

There you go. That's the sexism right there.

Would she have asked that exact question of a male employee who had similarly taken 2-3 hours to answer an email? Would she have assumed that he was looking after his children, or would she have expected their mother to be doing that, and him to be free to work uninterrupted? I suspect the latter. Therefore by asking you that question, she was discriminating against you because of your sex.

What you actually could have said was: "Let me know which email it was, and I'll have a look and check why there was a delay".

Franklin12 · 27/10/2021 23:36

I think there is an awful lot of this going on. People have got used to wfh whether they are trustworthy or not. Lots of women I used to work with were never available between 1530-1600. They didn’t say what they were doing and with endless reorganisations going on in the company managers were more interested in keeping their jobs then flag that an employee was taking the piss.

Even if one mgr did flag you just strung it out until you got another line manager.

Once you got to a senior level it was more flexible but you had
considerably more responsibility and were much more accountable. The junior level staff were rarely allowed to wfh. They had tried it but people were just taking advantage.

girlmom21 · 28/10/2021 02:50

I suspect the latter. Therefore by asking you that question, she was discriminating against you because of your sex.

You can't cry sexism because you suspect a man would have been treated differently. You have to know and be able to prove it.

asteroommatus · 28/10/2021 05:27

Not necessarily. She already disclosed she is in sole charge of her kids during work hours.

It would be sexism if they never asked any of the questions in the 1-2-1 of men. Or never questioned men, who had disclosed they were in sole charge of children during working hours.

Original poster

SassyS89 · 28/10/2021 13:51

I'm not sure if anyone else was asked about their home life and/or childcare, but I think it may be time to jump ship (as sad as it is to say as I enjoy what I do) but something isn't sitting right with me. A new administrator (not secretary) has joined my department and the senior secretary who will be going on mat leave will be training them on some tasks that we do on behalf of a specific company (fine). Most of these tasks fall into both mine and my colleague's remit (colleague is covering the mat leave and there's been a crossover for a couple months), but a couple of tasks fall into my colleague's remit only. The administrator will be trained on the tasks that fall into both our remits, but will not be shown the tasks that only fall in colleague's remit. The current administrators in the department don't do any of the work the secretaries do.

Maybe I'm looking too deep into it, but nothing is sitting right with me anymore.

OP posts:

fruitandflowers · 28/10/2021 14:09

I had this problem with my secretary, she has an 20 month old and regularly tells me she has to stay on mute on calls (where she is meant to be the call secretary / note taker / action item owner) as “she’s just waking up from his nap” or “she’s in a mood”. After a month or so of this I had to ask about her childcare arrangements and she looked miffed to be told she did need to have childcare in place while working. She is leaving in a couple of weeks which is a shame but honestly if you are a PA and have diary management responsibilities it is literally your job to be super responsive within a set number of hours. I have absolutely no problem with splitting lunch breaks etc and think that’s a great part of wfh, but you simply cannot sit there with young children for hours on end and be productive in the same way in that kind of role.

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