Feeling discriminated against for being a mother

[SassyS89]

I have been at my current job for 2 months. I am enjoying working for the company and enjoying the work that I do, however, something was mentioned to me today which is making me have doubts.

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare and I said my kids go after school club 2 days a week on the days I work from the office, and I'm not with their dad and he's not the most cooperative person but I make it work. I mentioned that my mother is not in the best of health so I do not call on to look after the kids often as I don't want to put a lot of pressure on her.

Today I had a mid probation meeting with my manager. My feedback was good and my work has no cause for concern. However, there's concern for my childcare arrangements as my kids don't go to after school club 5 days a week (I work 2 days from the office/3 WFH) so I can't go into the office at the drop of a hat, and they're concerned because I work from home with the kids in the house even though my work isn't affected.

When WFH I take 30 mins lunch and use the other 30 mins to collect the kids from school. I have to get approval to be away from the desk for 30 mins to do this (which I was not aware of but I have got 'school run/out of office' in my outlook calendar during the 30 mins period).

My manager mentioned that I apparently took 2-3 hours to reply to someone, but I have no idea of who this was and when this happened. I was shocked as this does not sound like me at all. My manager then asked me if I took long to reply because I was dealing with the kids, to which I replied that I couldn't comment because I don't know when it happened. My manager then said that the company are concerned that me working with my kids in the house is affecting my communication.

I said that I don't think there is any cause for concern at all, and while it isn't easy working with kids present I've been doing it since last year feb/march so I'm used to it. My manager then said I can't compare last year to this year, because we were forced to WFH last year but now things are back to normal.

My manager is now going to speak to HR to see if there are any resources that could 'help' and has put as an objective before the end of my probation to 'sort out childcare arrangements'.

Does this sound right?

Sorry for the long post but I am pissed off.

As with all these situations it isn't possible to generalise. If the role is to manage a mail box then the target may be under 2 hrs for each email to be responded to, acknowledged or allocated to the appropriate person.

@fruitandflowers

I had this problem with my secretary, she has an 20 month old and regularly tells me she has to stay on mute on calls (where she is meant to be the call secretary / note taker / action item owner) as “she’s just waking up from his nap” or “she’s in a mood”. After a month or so of this I had to ask about her childcare arrangements and she looked miffed to be told she did need to have childcare in place while working. She is leaving in a couple of weeks which is a shame but honestly if you are a PA and have diary management responsibilities it is literally your job to be super responsive within a set number of hours. I have absolutely no problem with splitting lunch breaks etc and think that’s a great part of wfh, but you simply cannot sit there with young children for hours on end and be productive in the same way in that kind of role.

I honestly don't feel like there should be concern for my current childcare arrangements, and I think the word 'concerned' is what threw me as I felt it was a bit of a strong word to use. I have had very positive feedback about my performance overall. I think dealing with a baby while working is different as a baby needs your complete undivided attention, but my kids are pretty self sufficient (as in they don't need my attention all of the time). My PA role is quite different to the general PA role, so I don't do diary management all the time or any inbox management, note taking, whatsoever. I just guess this whole situation has thrown me off as I wasn't expecting it.

If one of your duties is to schedule meetings sometimes 2-3 hours replying to an email can be quite critical as things move around sometimes at the last minute. Our PA works for several clients so isn't always available for us so we have to suck it up because we don't pay her to be 9-5 but if we did, we'd expect her to answer a critical email sooner than 2-3 hours or we would be asking why.

@DallasDerby

If one of your duties is to schedule meetings sometimes 2-3 hours replying to an email can be quite critical as things move around sometimes at the last minute. Our PA works for several clients so isn't always available for us so we have to suck it up because we don't pay her to be 9-5 but if we did, we'd expect her to answer a critical email sooner than 2-3 hours or we would be asking why.

Hi Dallas, my role doesn't really include scheduling meetings, not to the same extent as someone would in general PA role anyway. A lot of my role is based on hearing back from others that I have initially contacted. I have no idea about the 2-3 hours situation as I wasn't given any details about it and it doesn't sound like me. And that piece of feedback wasn't included on my feedback form like the rest of the feedback was

Look. At the end of the day you need to have childcare in place when you are working. You can think that is unfair but 99.9% of employers will require it. It’s only going to get more complicated as people start coming back into the office more - presumably you don’t have any flexibility around coming in on days you are currently choosing to wfh?

Honestly you don’t seem to want to accept you are being unreasonable, but I doubt there is anyone out there who will employ someone who is simultaneously looking after 2 primary school age children for a quarter of their working day. It’s just not a realistic set up.

So ball is in your court.

I only chose specific days to make it easier for childcare purposes.

You should be choosing days based on the needs of hour employer

Many employers stipulate in your contract you can't use working from home in place of childcare anyway

It isn't up to you to take a split lunch hour when it suits you - the majority of businesses have accepted lunch hours between 12-2 when employees are expected to not be available - you taking it around school hours is taking the p a bit sorry

I'm with your employer on this and as harsh as it sounds this sort of scenario is why working mums are considered a PITA to employ and face discrimination and disadvantage just getting a job

@fruitandflowers

Look. At the end of the day you need to have childcare in place when you are working. You can think that is unfair but 99.9% of employers will require it. It’s only going to get more complicated as people start coming back into the office more - presumably you don’t have any flexibility around coming in on days you are currently choosing to wfh?

Honestly you don’t seem to want to accept you are being unreasonable, but I doubt there is anyone out there who will employ someone who is simultaneously looking after 2 primary school age children for a quarter of their working day. It’s just not a realistic set up.

So ball is in your court.

Of course I have flexibility but I will need some sort of notice, and that's what I said but it wasn't good enough as my manager wants me to be able to go into the office at the drop of a hat. How have I not accepted that I am being unreasonable when I have said several times throughout this thread that I will look into putting my kids into after school club 5 days a week?

@tiggerwhocamefortea

I only chose specific days to make it easier for childcare purposes.

You should be choosing days based on the needs of hour employer

Many employers stipulate in your contract you can't use working from home in place of childcare anyway

It isn't up to you to take a split lunch hour when it suits you - the majority of businesses have accepted lunch hours between 12-2 when employees are expected to not be available - you taking it around school hours is taking the p a bit sorry

I'm with your employer on this and as harsh as it sounds this sort of scenario is why working mums are considered a PITA to employ and face discrimination and disadvantage just getting a job

I work in a team of secretaries so we can work on any days that we choose, regardless of the workload. I have already said several times throughout this thread that I will be looking into putting my kids in after school club 5 days a week.

You’re doing the right thing sorting out childcare Op. Most people have it in their contacts that they can’t be in charge of kids during working hours. It’s people doing things like this that are resulting in people being pulled back into the office. You might feel confident you are able to work effectively but a lot can’t and it can’t be one rule for some and one rule for others. If I took on a new employee and found they had their kids at home during working hours I would have a problem with that. It’s not being discriminated against for being a mother. It’s being expected to arrange appropriate childcare during your working hours and applies to male as well as female employees. You also need to be aware that early on in a new job you have to be on your best behaviour and not pushing the boundaries at all. Rightly or wrongly, once you have proven yourself it may be easier to bend the rules but two months into a new job is absolutely not the time to do that.

@SassyS89

The point is if you hadn't been called out on it you would have continued on regardless

@TrufflesAndToast

You’re doing the right thing sorting out childcare Op. Most people have it in their contacts that they can’t be in charge of kids during working hours. It’s people doing things like this that are resulting in people being pulled back into the office. You might feel confident you are able to work effectively but a lot can’t and it can’t be one rule for some and one rule for others. If I took on a new employee and found they had their kids at home during working hours I would have a problem with that. It’s not being discriminated against for being a mother. It’s being expected to arrange appropriate childcare during your working hours and applies to male as well as female employees. You also need to be aware that early on in a new job you have to be on your best behaviour and not pushing the boundaries at all. Rightly or wrongly, once you have proven yourself it may be easier to bend the rules but two months into a new job is absolutely not the time to do that.

Thank you for explaining. I guess I didn't see a problem with it as my last employer allowed me to do this earlier on in the year (school was open but was not doing after school club for a while), and they didn't find it to be a problem at all and were very understanding, but of course all companies are different

[quote tiggerwhocamefortea]@SassyS89

The point is if you hadn't been called out on it you would have continued on regardless [/quote]
Yes, you're right I would have, because I didn't see it as a problem. Like I have said to pp, my previous employer allowed me to do this with no problem at all and were very understanding (school was open but after school club wasn't for a while), so I didn't see this as a problem. Clearly it is, so I said I will sort it.

I do find it slightly weird that you thought just because your previous employer was cool with you looking after small kids whilst you were working that all employers would be.

I do find it slightly weird that you thought just because your previous employer was cool with you looking after small kids whilst you were working that all employers would be.

Me too. I would have thought you'd at least have asked first.

This is why women should never talk about their DC or home life at work. So long as you are available for your contracted hours it's literally none of their business what you do outside of those hours.

@Wotsitsits

This is why women should never talk about their DC or home life at work. So long as you are available for your contracted hours it's literally none of their business what you do outside of those hours.

But the OP is looking after children in her contracted hours - so it's literally their business.

OP, you will get a rough time on here but this is a acceptable practice for many employers and flexible working is not unusual.Ask for the details of the email and the opportunity to answer for that. They are quick to blame this on childcare without substance. I agree with others, do not disclose childcare arrangements with colleagues. Would they ask a male colleague the same should they not respond to a single email?

While you may be in the wrong Re childcare, they have definitely treated you differently because you are a woman.
I don't know how much you earn but you did mention you're a lone parent so one income. Have a look in case you can get any help with childcare costs.
Go to "entitled to" and put some estimates of childcare costs in.

Ugh.

I can see why you thought it was ok but honestly your kids are v young to be left to their own devices while you work

I’m also a bit surprised you didn’t think to ask if it was ok?

My work wouldn’t be ok with this and if I was managing you I’d have to pull you up on it. Sorry.

@Wotsitsits

This is why women should never talk about their DC or home life at work. So long as you are available for your contracted hours it's literally none of their business what you do outside of those hours.

But that's the issue...

It’s not discrimination.
It’s expected that during your working hours you are working, not looking after children.
It’s standard across all businesses. Last year was different as there was no choice but all childcare places are open now.

This ^
I acknowledge you now have said you will look into childcare, but am surprised you think this is a strange expectation.
Am also surprised you think it is fine and normal to stop work to go off and do a school run when you are expected (or the 'norm' is) to be at work between lunch and home time.
Obviously, this is going to be very role dependent. Some people are expected to 'get things done' and it doesn't matter what hours they work, but when your role involves working with others, then there is a "normal working hours" expectation for a reason.

I've definitely now learnt not to speak on my home life. It was literally a case of I was asked so I answered. I really didn't think it would be used against me. I thought it would be ok as essentially the kids are only in the house for 2 hours while I'm working as they're at school for most of the day. And I thought it would be ok to collect the kids as although I'm away for 20-25 mins, I'm still contactable so if need be I could ask the person to upload their task to the system so it would be picked up by another member of the team. I now realise this is not ok, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've agreed to start 30 mins earlier to make up for the school run. Thanks all

You are not being discriminated against. You need FT childcare if you work FT.

We work FT both of us. I WFH 2 days a week. Our baby/toddler and 6 year old go to FT nursery and full wraparound care. No other scenario is justifiable frankly.

While you may be in the wrong Re childcare, they have definitely treated you differently because you are a woman.

How do you work that out ?
They have pointed out, what should be blindingly obvious - that when your employer is paying you to work, then there is an expectation that you are doing so, and concentrating fully on that.
How is that 'treating her differently because she is a woman'? . Any parent would have the same message if they were trying to wfh whilst caring for young dc.

Nobody has used anything against you. You cannot have children whilst working unless a one off/lockdown madness/self isolation. As a regular practice - having kids at home whilst you’re working - I can’t even imagine proposing doing this. We bleed out FT nursery and full Mon to Fri wrap around morning and after school club for exactly this reason.