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Original poster

Feeling discriminated against for being a mother

106 replies

SassyS89 · 27/10/2021 16:17

I have been at my current job for 2 months. I am enjoying working for the company and enjoying the work that I do, however, something was mentioned to me today which is making me have doubts.

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare and I said my kids go after school club 2 days a week on the days I work from the office, and I'm not with their dad and he's not the most cooperative person but I make it work. I mentioned that my mother is not in the best of health so I do not call on to look after the kids often as I don't want to put a lot of pressure on her.

Today I had a mid probation meeting with my manager. My feedback was good and my work has no cause for concern. However, there's concern for my childcare arrangements as my kids don't go to after school club 5 days a week (I work 2 days from the office/3 WFH) so I can't go into the office at the drop of a hat, and they're concerned because I work from home with the kids in the house even though my work isn't affected.

When WFH I take 30 mins lunch and use the other 30 mins to collect the kids from school. I have to get approval to be away from the desk for 30 mins to do this (which I was not aware of but I have got 'school run/out of office' in my outlook calendar during the 30 mins period).

My manager mentioned that I apparently took 2-3 hours to reply to someone, but I have no idea of who this was and when this happened. I was shocked as this does not sound like me at all. My manager then asked me if I took long to reply because I was dealing with the kids, to which I replied that I couldn't comment because I don't know when it happened. My manager then said that the company are concerned that me working with my kids in the house is affecting my communication.

I said that I don't think there is any cause for concern at all, and while it isn't easy working with kids present I've been doing it since last year feb/march so I'm used to it. My manager then said I can't compare last year to this year, because we were forced to WFH last year but now things are back to normal.

My manager is now going to speak to HR to see if there are any resources that could 'help' and has put as an objective before the end of my probation to 'sort out childcare arrangements'.

Does this sound right?

Sorry for the long post but I am pissed off.

OP posts:

CreepySpider · 27/10/2021 17:21

Where I work, unless there are exceptional reasons, I’m expected to have childcare in place for the entire time I am working whether that’s at home or in the office.

cuttlefishgame · 27/10/2021 17:25

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare

Did the head of department ask all the employees (of whatever gender) the same question during their 1-2-1? If not, then I'd say this is sex discrimination.

Sleeplessem · 27/10/2021 17:27

@cuttlefishgame

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare

Did the head of department ask all the employees (of whatever gender) the same question during their 1-2-1? If not, then I'd say this is sex discrimination.

Was thinking the exact same thing ^^

purplemunkey · 27/10/2021 17:30

They do seem to have asked a lot of questions, but it sounds like it comes from a concern around OPs productivity. I was asked about childcare in an interview once, which I thought was odd. I was annoyed at myself for answering as I should have said it was none of their business really. I needed the job though!

But if OP is looking after two primary age children while working and the company have not agreed to this, then it is a problem. They probably should have just reiterated their policy and asked OP to confirm they had childcare in place during working hours.

riotlady · 27/10/2021 17:38

@cuttlefishgame

So, a few weeks ago some of my department had informal 1-2-1s with the head of the department. I had a 1-2-1 and the head was asking me about my home life and childcare

Did the head of department ask all the employees (of whatever gender) the same question during their 1-2-1? If not, then I'd say this is sex discrimination.

I wonder if they’re asking because her productivity/attention within those particular hours has been noticed and brought up by someone

Sleeplessem · 27/10/2021 17:41

@purplemunkey

But they’ve said they’ve no concerns about her performance?

TheWholeWorld · 27/10/2021 17:43

Unfortunately it was a mistake to give any detail really about your arrangements - when you've only been somewhere for a short time you haven't built up that relationship where people will give you a pass on things. Having young children at home when you're supposed to be working is not acceptable now most childcare settings are back up and running. And telling anyone in management about your relationship with your ex or your mum's health is not going to help build a picture of a dependable employee. I think your intentions were good but naive, these people are not your friends and you should only feed your manager information that will help you, and definitely don't over share.

I hope you can sort out childcare - if they ask again, just say it's sorted. I would try and get to the bottom of this email thing - it's not nice to have an unsubstantiated allegation hanging over you. Like others I don't think taking 2 hours to respond to an email is out of order, if you were busy.

Fetarabbit · 27/10/2021 17:46

But they did say someone couldn't get through for hours etc, might not be performance as in poor performance, but doesn't mean its acceptable.

purplemunkey · 27/10/2021 17:47

But they do have concerns. That's what they said in the meeting. It sounds like it's more to do with availability and response times. I know the 2-3 hours of not replying to an email might sound silly, but it depends what OPs role is and whether that held other things up. I may take longer than that to reply to emails in general but there are certain tasks in my role where it's expected that I reply within 2hrs.

Original poster

SassyS89 · 27/10/2021 17:51

Regarding the email situation, the words used were 'there was an occasion where you didn't reply back to a message for 2 or 3 hours'. When I questioned this my manager said that was the feedback that was given. She then asked me if I took that long to reply because I was dealing with my kids. I said I could not comment as I did not know when this happened. I wasn't told who gave this feedback or what day/time this happened

OP posts:

Marelle · 27/10/2021 17:52

If someone needs a reply within 2-3 hours then they shouldn’t be sending an email. Email by its nature is replied to at your leisure. You could be in a meeting or otherwise busy. If an urgent response is required they should be telephoning you. And I would point that out to your boss too!

Somebodylikeyew · 27/10/2021 17:52

I’m torn tbh.

My job have been really flexible about this, for which I’m really grateful, but my kids are secondary age and that’s hard enough some days! Plus ive been there several years and they know I’m good at what i do and generally overdeliver; whereas you don’t have that luxury yet, annoyingly. I do think employers should recognise that if you treat working mums well they will generally be the most loyal, hardworking employees out there, but you can’t force them to see it like that unfortunately.

If you like the job and want to keep it, I think for now you have to either:

Get them into afterschool five days a week
Get them into a childminder
Get it agreed that you start early ie 7 and/or do additional hours once the kids are down, if they’re agreeable.

iklboogiemaninthecloset · 27/10/2021 17:58

I'm surprised you didn't know you needed permission to go out on the school run during the working day. It's pretty obvious it's a no-no.

Original poster

SassyS89 · 27/10/2021 17:59

At the moment, it's been agreed that I'll start 30 mins earlier to make up for the school run, but I'll try to get the kids into childcare 5 days a week so save any aggro

OP posts:

Original poster

SassyS89 · 27/10/2021 17:59

This was agreed in the meeting today

OP posts:

Cruiser123 · 27/10/2021 18:00

I'm sorry, but I'm with your manager on this.

I don't have a 6-year-old, mine is 14 months old and goes to a childminder full-time while I'm working.

My nephew is 5 1/2 though and I know that children at that age are still very needy and dependent on their parents at that age.

"Mum, can I have a sandwich?", "Mum, I hurt my knee, it's bleeding, help me", "Mum, can I watch so and so".... You get my point?

I don't think I would be happy with your arrangement if I was your employer.

ChrissyPlummer · 27/10/2021 18:01

@Namenic

They sound like crappy employers. Something like this would piss me off - v glad that my workplace are more understanding. In return I offer flexibility and work weekends and late if required.

OPs employers may not be able to do this though. She does say she’s a secretary, so likely not needed evenings/weekends to ‘make up’ hours. In my job there are a certain number of us needed on each shift; we can’t choose to leave an hour early for the school run/whatever and then stay an extra hour the day after. A lot of companies work like this. When I was a receptionist I couldn’t even vary my lunch hour by 15 minutes.

DGFB · 27/10/2021 18:05

It’s not unreasonable of them to expect you to have childcare for your children while you work. You know that, come on

purplemunkey · 27/10/2021 18:05

When I questioned this my manager said that was the feedback that was given. She then asked me if I took that long to reply because I was dealing with my kids. I said I could not comment as I did not know when this happened.

I'm not sure this was the best response. If the kids don't distract you it wouldn't have mattered when this was, you should have been able to say dealing with your kids doesn't distract your work full stop.

I'm still trying to get my head round this sort of arrangement being ok anywhere unless you are working for yourself, but judging by other responses it must be ok with some employers. It doesn't sound like your employer is one of them though OP.

Simonjt · 27/10/2021 18:12

We have to have childcare if we have a child under 11 in the home while we WFH, I do tag my lunch on to the end of the day to pick my son up, this is however approved by my line manager. Sometimes I’m needed for meetings at this time, so my employer gives me a weeks notice to source childcare.

If you wouldn’t leave them home alone or take them to the office then you should have childcare.

Sally872 · 27/10/2021 18:13

My work are very understanding and flexible. But not caring for children while work from home is the norm with my employer too. Exception made during lockdown but childcare expected now.

JackieCollinshasnoauthority · 27/10/2021 18:16

Companies who prioritise presnteeism over productivity will struggle to recruit in the future.

As it's half term, DH has had our 8 year old home with him all day. In term time he starts work after the school run. He's been able to work flexibly in a way that I never have as a working mother so I do think there's an element of sexism in how companies deal with this issue.

Hopefully you'll find a way forward with this organisation but if not you shouldn't have trouble finding one whose values about work are more progressive.

Chloemol · 27/10/2021 18:16

You are expected to work during set hours. You therefore can’t be if you are wfh but your kids are there
So they are right to be concerned and it’s not discrimination

Newwifeatnumber10 · 27/10/2021 18:17

Simply childcare and lack of it is not your employer’s problem. You should be able to work wherever they tell you within your employed hours without the distraction of childcare. Absolutely not discrimination.

Sleeplessem · 27/10/2021 18:21

If there is no concern about productivity or performance based on past examples then there is no concern, it’s ridiculous for an employer to be concerned about a future hypothetical scenario because where does it stop?

With regards to an email 2/3 hrs this is absurd and it’s v odd this was raised as feedback in the first place?

How’s the culture overall OP?

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